Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning Part One (Evolution)

by dhw, Sunday, April 11, 2021, 13:45 (1320 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Your point has always been that major changes were necessary to mouth, lips, larynx and the vocal organs to allow for sapiens speech. The bold emphasizes that 1.5 million years ago the cerebral innovations might have constituted the foundations of our language-ready brain. In other words, there was no great leap from zilch to sapiens speech, but a gradual refinement of existing structures.

DAVID: You cannot denigrate my point that the preparatory mechanism was in place 1.5 million years ago.

Once again: Previously you insisted that there was a great leap from zilch to sapiens speech because God did a dabble (or preprogrammed) a huge increase in the size of the sapiens brain and, most notably, the frontal lobe. But the articles tell us that there was no great leap from erectus size to sapiens size, and there was no great leap from zilch to sapiens speech because our ancient ancestors would also have had their own form of language using their smaller frontal lobe. But the true absurdity of your idea that every innovation was a preparation for sapiens comes out most clearly in the example of the gar fish eye:

DAVID: It evolved thousands of generation earlier than needed, and that is not pre-planning?

dhw: You seem to think the only creature that found vision to be an advantage was H. sapiens! Do you honestly believe the gar fish didn’t use its eyes to see with?

DAVID: Of course they saw with a forerunner of the special mechanism we use.

So your God gave gar fish eyes in order that they could develop into human eyes? And gar fish and dinosaurs didn’t “need” them because only humans need eyes?

DAVID: The brain itself would have to know in advance how to expand in size and wiring complexity to accommodate needed abstract thoughts for future designs. I cannot see a natural cause as you wish, God does it.

dhw: Yes, the cells that make up the brain would know when to add to their number in order to meet new requirements. The intelligence required to do this may well have been given to them by your God, just as you think he gave them the ability to complexify.

DAVID: You still haven't explained the overexpansion which resulted in 150 cc loss.

I have now repeated countless times that there was no overexpansion! Sapiens would have needed all his 1350 cc to implement whatever may have been the new initial requirement. From then on, there were no new requirements his 1350 cc could not handle (no new developments = stasis) until 245,000 years later – peanuts compared to erectus’s 2 million years – new ideas would have required additional cells. But for some reason (potential anatomical problems?) the brain did not expand, and instead increased its ability to complexify. This proved so efficient that 150 cc of previously essential cells were no longer required and were therefore jettisoned (= shrinkage). I will repeat this theory once more below. Most of your post in fact goes on to repeat the same insistence that all innovations were preparation for sapiens, and God gave us an extra 150 cc which we didn’t need but which we needed so that we could learn to use the 1200 cc we needed!

Evolution: bacteria that don't evolve
dhw: new tools, structures etc. could not be created without new cells or new complexifications. You seem to think the brain’s ability to implement all the new ideas was ready and waiting for 245,000 years.

DAVID: But exactly for 245,000 years the cells were there to be used and weren't: so stasis!

Here is the repeat: I am proposing that the cells WERE used to maintain the status quo after the initial expansion. The status quo is stasis. But after 245,000 years, there were new ideas and requirements, and the 1350 cc were no longer enough, but the brain could not expand any further, and so instead the cells enhanced their ability to complexify. And….yawn!...this proved so efficient that 150 cc worth of previously essential cells were no longer required. Please explain why you continually ignore this proposal and why you think it is illogical.

dhw: But modern research has shown us that implementation CHANGES the brain. In taxi drivers it even expands part of the brain. The hippocampus had not already expanded 315,000 years ago in anticipation of the work it had to do.

DAVID: So God designed the hippocampus to have the ability to add extra cells solely for the purpose of adding additional memory capacity, not complex immaterial concepts which the existing extra cells elsewhere in the newly expanded frontal and prefrontal cortices provided for.

Yes, our existing cells can presumably complexify sufficiently to implement our immaterial concepts, but more cells were needed to accommodate memory. Now please explain why you continue to ignore the fact that we know the brain RESPONDS to new ideas by complexifying or, in one case, expanding. Why do you find it impossible to believe that past brains responded in the same way?