Evolution: more genomic evidence of pre-planning Part One (Evolution)

by dhw, Friday, May 07, 2021, 12:33 (1085 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: You can couch it in any terms you wish but excess cells were on board the moment sapiens big brain arrived.

dhw: […] If the extra cells enabled us to “tailor” our brain, how could they have been excessive?

DAVID: Still trying to ignore the facts. I've changed and you don't notice. I've previously granted the cells which were eventually discarded may have had or did have light use 315,000 years ago.

I keep pointing out that you have changed, and yet you still insist that you haven’t changed! Excess cells were not “on board” when modern sapiens arrived, because the cells were used! Some cells (not necessarily the new ones) BECAME excessive when enhanced complexification took over. Sadly, this will now have to be repeated over and over again.

DAVID: The extra neurons gave the complexity mechanism many alternate ways to form the new networks to fit our newly found uses as we developed new concrete and abstract thoughts, i.e., tailoring. So some of the extra were eventually used but the excess was discarded. Facts we clearly know.

Yes, some cells - we don't know which ones - BECAME excessive when the complexity mechanism tailored itself to meet the new requirements. Prior to that, they were all used, and so the new cells were not “excess” when they arrived, because they were needed at the time.

DAVID: The sapiens brain arrived bigger than it had to be to handle the eventual heavy use in the last 70,000 years. Some cells became excess. With my clear concept God added extra cells so we could tailor our brain to our free-willed new uses.

You have agreed that the new cells were used, so the brain was NOT bigger than it had to be at that time! Yes, some cells BECAME excessive when enhanced complexification met the new requirements (i.e. “tailored” the brain) and proved so efficient that some previously essential cells (they were used) were no longer essential.

DAVID: Yes our big brain arrived with excess, redundant cells. We agree.

We do NOT agree! They were NOT excess or redundant when they arrived! You have agreed that they were used! Please stop contradicting yourself!

DAVID: All you can logically propose is previous brains could enlarge the hippocampus, but you want to stretch what we know.

dhw: Yes, my theory is an extrapolation from what we know: the current brain complexifies and expands autonomously in response to new requirements, and so it is not illogical to propose that it may have done the same in the past. On what knowledge do you base your theory that your God operated on past brains in order to insert unnecessary new cells for later use?

DAVID: All we know and can theorize from is what we learn from our brain's history. Since past forms tend to advance complexity, I assume past brains did what our brain does less complexly.

Of course past brains would have been less complex. How does that come to mean that your God inserted unnecessary new cells for no immediate purpose, although in fact they were used? I also assume that past brains autonomously complexified and expanded (hippocampus) just as present brains do. Thank you for agreeing.

DAVID: Do you think early sapiens discussed general relativity theory?

dhw: How do you know that no early sapiens ever wondered how we got here?

DAVID: We know earlier sapiens had lots of Gods to cover all natural phenomena.

dhw: So why did you claim that there was “zilch” abstract thought?

DAVID: No, I've agreed some minor abstract thought in early sapiens. Erectus, who knows.

Thank you for withdrawing your silly statement that earlier brains had “zilch” abstract thought.

dhw: And do you disagree that autonomous awareness of requirements and autonomous decision-making denote autonomous intelligence?
[…]

DAVID: God's instructions allowed the cells to have autonomous actions following the given information with the cells God-given decoding ability.

In plain English, your God gave cells the ability to complexify and expand without his interference. These autonomous actions could only take place if cells were aware of requirements and were able to take the decisions necessary to meet those requirements. Once again, thank you for accepting my theory. Do you agree or disagree that autonomous awareness and decision-making denote intelligence?