Cosmologic philosophy: Egnor on Big Bang, etc. (Introduction)

by dhw, Friday, September 24, 2021, 11:14 (1156 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Guth's says our time started with our BB and prior to our time, time did not exist.

dhw: […] Of course “our” time started with our BB. But he said time itself started with our BB, and there was no time before our BB. And two months ago you told me: “The problem you are not seeing is, there is no before before the BB. Time didn’t exist. This was proven by Guth" etc.

DAVID: Still quibbling over my quote from Guth's study. It is my quote, not Guth's actual thoughts.

I have no idea what Guth actually said. I only know that two months ago YOU said there was no before the BB and time did not exist, and this was proven by Guth. That is not quibbling – the whole point of the discussion is that you told me I was not seeing a problem, whereas you were the one creating a problem for yourself!

DAVID: At the time I wrote the sentence previous BB's were not considered, just the issue of our BB coming from nothing with time starting at the BB.

So now you have learnt something and have changed your mind. That should be the end of the discussion...

DAVID: I do not believe in previous BB's. I view it only as a theoretical possibility and that does not change the intent of the meaning of the sentence from 17 years ago.

It is not a matter of believing or not believing. You have accepted the POSSIBILITY -”Following our thought that prior BB's might have occurred, yes time existed in each of them” – and therefore you reject the categorical statement YOU made two months ago that time did not exist before our BB. This discussion should have ended at the moment when you realized that prior BBs and prior time were possible.

DAVID: George Ellis steps in:
https://iai.tv/articles/the-philosophical-problems-of-cosmology-auid-1883?_auid=2020
QUOTE: We can say nothing about what existed before the start of the universe, if it did have a start.

I agree. Therefore it is absurd to state that there was no before and that there was no time before the start of our universe.

ELLIS: The concept of “before the beginning” does not even make sense, for there was no “before” then – indeed there was not even a “then” then!

That depends on what beginning you are referring to. If you believe there has only been one universe (hence “the” universe) and that the one universe had a beginning, then of course the concept makes no sense. But if you say that our universe may be just one in a series of universes, then clearly it makes perfect sense to say that there was a “before” the beginning of our universe.

DAVID: Please note Ellis is a major authority and he is a believer in God, not noticeable here in how he presents issues.

I do not think there is any such person as a major authority on what might have happened before our BB, and I would have thought that anyone who believes in God would refrain from making assumptions about what their God did or did not do before creating our universe.