Cosmologic philosophy: Egnor on Big Bang, etc. (Introduction)

by David Turell , Friday, August 13, 2021, 18:29 (1198 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Those sequences are not in time.

dhw: Those sequences ARE time, if you define time as a sequence!

DAVID: Yes, we are discussing our time concept in our spacetime. Between each BB there is no time.

dhw: Of course there is time between (i.e. before and after) each BB, if time = a sequence of before and after. And we are applying our time concept to whatever preceded our BB. And once again, you do NOT accept the argument that there was nothing before the BB, though earlier (bolded) you supported Guth, Borde and Valenkin:

DAVID (under “Far out cosmology”): If there was nothing before the BB, where did the enormous energy come from? In considering God as the alternative, we must assume He could create such energy. We can't get something from nothing.
And:
DAVID: Timeless God is not nothing in that He can create BB's from nothing by His powers. Invoking G,B,&V doesn't help you. They state there is no 'before', before the BB.

This is the biggest twist so far! You wrote:
DAVID (July 19 @ 21.05): But the problem you are not seeing is, there is no before before the BB. Time didn't exist. This was proven by Guth, Borde, and Valenkin by mathematics years ago, presented by my books and here.

In July you firmly supported Guth & Co, and in August you are firmly disagreeing with them and telling me what I told you at the time!

DAVID: We are back to timelessness before the BB. And they are not considering God in any way, as pure scientists. I am separating sequential time in our spacetime from a series of BB's. Time exists, as we experience it only within a BB.

dhw: Just as you have tied yourself in knots by defending Guth & Co and then rejecting them, you are now tying yourself in knots by ignoring all my previous responses, so I will sum them up. Your belief in God means that you believe there WAS a "before" our BB. You accept the definition of time as a sequence of before-now-after. Your belief in the possibility of a sequence of BBs means that not only did time exist before our BB, but that time has always existed in the sequence of before BBs, during BBs, and after BBs. I don't know why this discussion is continuing.

Because of your total confusion about my position. I accept the concept of time as sequential events ONLY in a spacetime, be it our BB or past ones. When G,B, and V say there is no 'before' before our BB they state we (our BB) came from nothing. They cannot use God as a reason as I do. Theologically God exists timelessly. I'll stick with that. Just to confuse the issue, in the theories of relativity, time appears differently to different observers depending upon their position and movement and speed of movement in relative to other objects or people. Don't forget, clocks in fast moving obits slow down!!! Pure fact. So time in our spacetime has malleable properties!!! And can even appear to go in reverse. As a result our time isn't just sequential. It is how we humans experience it. Back to cosmological philosophy: There is no time as we experience it between BB's. You can conceive of a series of BB's showing sequential time, but it is your concept only in this spacetime. It is all in your head.