Cosmologic philosophy: Egnor on Big Bang, etc. (Introduction)

by David Turell , Monday, August 30, 2021, 14:41 (1181 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: […] you wrote: “there is no before before the BB. Time didn’t exist. This was proven by Guth, Borde and Valenkin by mathematics years ago, presented by my books and here.”

DAVID: My only prior to the/our BB reality is God.

dhw: Which already = a before, and which leaves open the possibility that your God could have created countless BBs, and which therefore leaves open the possibility that Guth and Co. have got it wrong. (And even if one doesn't believe in God, no-one can possibly know that there was nothing before our BB.)

DAVID: Or that there was something other than God.

dhw: Indeed, an alternative which I know you reject would be an impersonal but eternal combination of matter and energy constantly producing new combinations and BBs. How does that justify your claim that Guth & Co. proved that time did not exist before our BB?

Guth & Co. believe as I do that time appeared with the BB, and was not present before it.

dhw: You agree that time could have existed within possible previous BBs, so you reject Guth and Co’s claim to have proven that there was no time before the BB. The only disagreement we now have is that you refuse to recognize that if time – as you agree – is the sequence of before-during-after, there is a before each BB and an after each BB, as well as a during each BB. Therefore there was time between BBs.

DAVID: And my point is that any time that existed before our BB existed only in past BB's if they really happened. There is no time between theoretical BBs. Time exists only within spacetime in BBs.

dhw: You simply continue to ignore the point that if time means the sequence of before-during-after, then “between” theoretical BBs means after one BB and before another. If you are not prepared to answer this point, we may as well end the discussion, since you have withdrawn your support for Egnor and for Guth & Co which sparked off this discussion.

I am totally in agreement with Egnor and Guth. Our ability to imagine a sequence of BB's doesn't translate into real time existing between those imagined BB's.