Cosmologic philosophy: Egnor on Big Bang, etc. (Introduction)

by dhw, Friday, September 03, 2021, 10:44 (1177 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: […] you wrote: “there is no before before the BB. Time didn’t exist. This was proven by Guth, Borde and Valenkin by mathematics years ago, presented by my books and here.”

Our long discussion boils down to this exchange:

DAVID: All we can know is time starts at our BB. Anything before is imagined and has created this long discussion.

dhw: We cannot know that time starts at our BB since we cannot know what happened before our BB. Of course anything before is imagined. Guth & Co “imagine” that there was absolutely nothing before our BB, because they think it came from nothing. You disagree! So how can you see their “imagined” nothing as proof that there was no “imagined” God (impossible if there was "no before") and there were no “imagined” BBs, and hence no time, before our BB?

DAVID: In our BB time is seen as sequential events. Fine, we agree. Most cosmologists will tell you that time exists in our BB but not before. The sequence of imagined BB's does not create time before our BB except now in your imagination. The bold above fits.

How do most cosmologists know that there was no “before” our BB? Once again: you disagree with them, because you believe your God existed before, and indeed created the BB. And you believe it is possible that during his eternal existence he may have created other BBs. You cannot prove this, any more than Guth and Co can prove that there was nothing before our BB. Their “imagining” that there was nothing is no less imagination than your imagining God and earlier BBs. And if there is a God and there were earlier BBs, there will have been a sequence of before, during and after those BBs – and that sequence of before, during and after is what you and I agree is our definition of time. Please stop pretending that you agree with Guth and Co, when your belief in God’s existence – not to mention your acceptance of the possibility of earlier BBs – is the exact opposite of their "proven" belief that there was no “before” the BB.