Cosmologic philosophy: Egnor on Big Bang, etc. (Introduction)

by David Turell , Wednesday, August 04, 2021, 16:44 (1207 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I see time as appearing only within each BB.

dhw: Maybe your God sees time as a continuous sequence of past-present-future, including his rest periods in between BBs. It’s all theory, but already you are conceding that time may have existed before our BB, so why do you continue this discussion?

DAVID: Only in each BB, not in between BB's.

dhw: A silly distinction. If there are lots of BBs, then you have a before each BB, a BB, and an after BB. Periods of rest are also part of the before-and-after sequence. And in any case, you are now agreeing that there may well have been time before our BB, so why do you continue the argument?

I am not agreeing to a time before our BB, except as it appears in each prior BB. No time exists between BB's.

DAVID: Yes, but you don't pretend you know anything. So you have no answers that satisfy you.

dhw: Correct. How does that justify your pretence and that of your pet theorists that you do know something which cannot possibly be known?

dhw: You have not answered.

I have stated Guth, Borde, and Valenkin satisfied themselves and others that time did not exist before the BB.

DAVID: There are logical and illogical 'truths'.

dhw: How very true. Your theory of evolution proves the point, as does the claim that a universe can arise out of nothing.

DAVID: God makes universes.

dhw: So what is all this nonsense about “nothing before our BB” and therefore time only began with our BB?
DAVID: Not nonsense. Time exists when created in BB's, not in between.

dhw: More nonsense. See above.

DAVID: And remember dear Einstein. Time is relative to each observer's viewpoint. Einstein's spacetime approach is proven. Still event based.

dhw: How does that prove that before humans and before the BB there were no sequences of cause and effect, of before-now-after, of past-present-future? Do you really think dear Einstein knew more than the all-knowing God you believe in?

DAVID: Again you are humanly seeing time as a sequence, just as we do within this universe.

dhw: I can hardly deny that I am human, but how does my human-ness prove that what I observe is wrong, and never existed before I came on the scene? But please remember that I remain agnostic. I am not the one pretending to know what he cannot possibly know.

DAVID: That time appeared with the BB is pure logic.

dhw: It is pure logic that the BB occurred in time. All events demonstrate the existence of time if you interpret time as a sequence of before-now-after. It is illogical to claim that time did not exist BEFORE the BB, because nobody can possibly know what existed BEFORE the BB.

The BB appears to be a creation from nothing. Does nothing have time or is it timeless?