Cosmologic philosophy: Howard A. Smith again (Introduction)

by dhw, Saturday, December 17, 2016, 13:31 (2898 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Your question: "It’s not clear to me, though, why he thinks we have a significant “cosmic” role, " relates to John Wheeler and quantum theory. the idea that without human consciousness to observe the universe it might not exist:
The quantum mechanical pioneer, John Wheeler, is one of several thinkers who have proposed that the unusual nature of the universe suggests it had to evolve conscious beings in order to become real."

dhw: Do you believe that the sun and Planet Earth may not have existed in reality before there was conscious life on Earth?

DAVID:…As long as God's consciousness is present everything in the universe exists. When we come along we don't take over from Him.

dhw: I am simply trying to bring some common sense into the discussion. I do not accept the view that without human consciousness, the universe might not be real, and I would just like to know whether you agree with me that the sun and Planet Earth existed in reality before humans came on the scene.

DAVID: Your problem is not recognizing that quantum theory brings in the issue of consciousness as a major consideration. It defies common sense. Granted the formulas give the proper results, but don't explain the influence of conscious actions, as in the Wheeler experiment. This is why you had so much trouble in understanding Ruth Kastner's discussions. Of course the universe and our solar system was here before we arrived. I've already said that above! Consciousness is part of the universe. Quantum actions are the basis of the universe.

I do not doubt that consciousness is part of the universe, since we conscious beings are in the universe, although some - in my view wacky – philosophers tell us there is no such thing as consciousness (but I accept that perception is subjective), and I can well believe that experiments will show that consciousness can influence certain actions. Meanwhile, thank you for now explicitly rejecting the notion that without human consciousness the universe might not exist, and that the universe had to evolve conscious beings in order to become real. You should therefore be able to understand why I have trouble with any argument which suggests that the universe might not exist without human consciousness and that the universe had to evolve conscious beings in order to become real.