Cosmologic philosophy: Egnor on Big Bang, etc. (Introduction)

by David Turell , Thursday, July 22, 2021, 18:50 (1220 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: But the problem you are not seeing is, there is no before before the BB. Time didn't exist. This was proven by Guth, Borde, and Valenkin by mathematics years ago, presented by my books and here.

dhw: But you are convinced that there WAS a before, and that nothing could come of nothing!!! How could your God create the BB if he didn’t exist BEFORE the BB? Nobody can possibly prove that that there was nothing before the BB, and why will you not accept a definition of time as a sequence of past-present-future, with cause and effect the most obvious manifestation?

You don't understand the concept of time and no time existing. There was no 'before' in a time sense, since time appeared after the BB. To be neutral, whatever or whomever created the universe was timeless, therefore eternal.

dhw: For theists who believe that what preceded it was some sort of eternal immaterial conscious mind, where the heck did that come from? There is absolutely no more reason to believe that “first cause” was immaterial consciousness than there is to believe that first cause was non-conscious materials.

DAVID: Stick to that illogical reasoning.

dhw: Bearing in mind that nobody can possibly know what preceded the BB, please explain why it is logical to assume that there is an eternal, sourceless, conscious mind that preceded and caused the material BB, but it is illogical to assume that the material BB was caused by preceding materials?

You ignore the complexity of what appeared in the inorganic universe and the appearance of organic matter leading to our minds and consciousness. You must look at this continuum to analyze from the whole set of evidence. What preceding materials do you imagine existed before time appeared??