Cosmologic philosophy: Egnor on Big Bang, etc. (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, September 19, 2021, 16:00 (950 days ago) @ dhw

dhw:Please read these statements of yours carefully:

DAVID: “There is no before before the BB. Time didn’t exist. This was proven by Guth, Borde and Valenkin by mathematics years ago, presented by my books and here.”

DAVID: I accept the definition of time as a sequence of events [dhw: my definition was a sequence of before-during-after] only when they exist in a BB that contains time, which by definition ours does and therefore possible/imaginary prior BB’s did

dhw: If it is possible that BBs took place before our BB, and by definition they contained time, you clearly do not agree that Guth & Co have proved that there was no “before” our BB and no time existed.

DAVID: The point I agreed with from Guth is time started with our BB. Nothing more. Imagined previous BB's containing time is a different subject, not covered by Guth. Time exists only in BB's. Quite clear!!!!

dhw: If you believe that your God may have created BBs containing time before he created our BB, then you do not believe that that Guth has proven there was nothing before our BB and time did not exist before our BB. Your attempt to twist the argument is encapsulated by your final comment:
DAVID: Your twisted thinking is beyond belief. My imagined possible previous BB's do not refute Guth's only point, our time started with our BB.

dhw: Of course OUR time started with OUR BB. But that is not what you wrote. Read it again:
DAVID: “there is no before before the BB. Time didn’t exist. This was proven by Guth, Borde and Valenkin by mathematics years ago, presented by my books and here.”

dhw: According to this statement, there was only one BB, nothing before it, and therefore no time before it. But you believe your God created our BB and may well have created others before it. And so Guth & Co have not, in your eyes, proven that there was no before and no time before our BB. “Your twisted thinking is beyond belief.”

Comment: your usual twisting of statements. The bolds were written years ago, when I did not consider the possibility of previous BB's. The bolds mean time started with our BB and our BB came from nothing but God. Our discussions now have nothing to do with the 17-year-old sentences. Guth is still very acceptable.