Unanswered questions (General)

by David Turell @, Friday, August 02, 2019, 18:06 (376 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: YOUR VERSION OF YOUR GOD: “I am always in control, and my one and only purpose is to create H. sapiens, and therefore it follows that I have to start with bacteria […]

DAVID: Total distortion. In my view, God chose to evolve humans from bacteria. He 'didn't have to' which implies He was forced to.. God has total freedom of choice.

dhw: OK, he chose to start evolution (not just humans) with bacteria. But that does not explain why he "had to" create every non-human organism that preceded H. sapiens, which is the point at issue here.

What you totally miss here is the history of evolution. Starting with the agreement that God chose to evolve humans from bacteria, it is patently obvious that the known history of evolution tells us what He did. The history tells us He decided what He had to do!!! I don't know why you cannot recognize this logical line of reasoning.

dhw: QUOTES FROM YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS: “All ‘non-human life’ had to come first.” “God knew he had to create all the stages of development before he would arrive at humans.” “My God knows that if He has chosen to evolve humans in stages, He must design everything else first.” (I asked why he “must” design dinosaurs, whales’ flippers etc.) “You are trying to deny God knew what He had to do to get from bacteria to humans” (i.e. design 3.5 billion years’ worth of non-humans). “He knew ‘He had to create’ everything else before he got to humans.” Over and over again. And when I ask why he had to create dinosaurs and whales’ flippers and the weaverbird’s nest, I am told that they had to eat or be eaten by one another to keep life going, and when I ask why that was necessary for an always-in-control God with just one single purpose, I am told we are not privy to his reasons.

All this just illustrates your total confusion about my line of reasoning. If God chose to evolve, history tells us what He decided to do,


dhw: At least my imaginings are logical and fit in with the known history, and of course I agree that they are all logical guesses or hypotheses, but unlike your own illogical guess/hypothesis, they are not a fixed belief.

DAVID: I am allowed to have fixed beliefs. My theory that God chose to evolve humans from bacteria is totally logical, since the history of evolution gives us that option in interpreting God's actions as a way of creating humans.

dhw: Of course you can have your fixed beliefs, but the whole purpose of this forum is to discuss and analyse all the options. Yes, your theory that God chose to evolve humans from bacteria is logical, since if he exists he clearly chose to evolve every single organism that has lived and died since life began (which incidentally doesn’t mean he chose to specially design each of them individually, as you maintain). What is not logical, if he chose to evolve (= specially design) millions of life forms, is that his one and only purpose from the very beginning was to specially design H. sapiens. Yes, we are unique in our level of consciousness and our resultant intelligence, but that does not mean that the whole history of life has been solely geared to the creation of us! Maybe H. sapiens is just part of a much broader purpose. (Tony will perhaps provide a religious one, but I am thinking more in your own terms of the painter and his paintings.) However, there is no point in my yet again repeating my list of logical alternatives.

What this tells us is that you love to enter God's mind and question the evolutionary history He created. To what purpose? Just part of your doubting the presence of a designing mind (God). Adler's reasoning tells us we are God's primary purpose. You are not required to accept it.


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