Different in degree or kind: Egnor's take (Introduction)

by David Turell , Saturday, October 01, 2016, 15:30 (2764 days ago) @ dhw


> DAVID: You are using a false narrative: Epigenetic alterations are minor, not major. I am discussing major jumps in phenotypes. The guppies took two years to change size. That is the brief adaptations you are offering, without phenotypic change of any importance. The changes we are discussing are gaps like H. Erectus to H. habilis to H. Sapiens.
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> dhw: The changes we are discussing are to lips, tongue, larynx, respiration - i.e. to organs that already existed and which would have worked together cooperatively to create the system enabling new sounds. According to your hypothesis, God dipped in and made precisely those changes, and then for some reason humans waited tens of thousands of years before finding out what to do with them.-Not true and I've said so. McCrone's book discusses how H. habilis spoke. Of course they used a new anatomy right at the beginning and learned how to use it to the best advantage.- 
> dhw: QUOTE: " 'It's what we've all been waiting for,' said Jennifer Clack, curator of vertebrate paleontology at the University of Cambridge's Museum of Zoology in the United Kingdom. 'Until this discovery, we weren't able to see the changes by which the pelvic fins of the fish became much larger and more robust, and gradually turned into the tetrapod hind limb.' " (My bold)
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> dhw: So apparently your God did not provide fish with fully formed legs before they stepped onto dry land. As fish responded to the need for new movements, the anatomy changed: trying to walk first, anatomy second. As humans responded to the need for new sounds, the anatomy changed: trying to talk first, anatomy second.-Again, blithely skipping the gaps in phenotype in human fossils which include the vocal tracts. One can only speak with what is provided. Habilis speach not the same as Erectus speech.
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> DAVID: The big brain arrived as a tabula rasa and then was developed to its current state by humans learning to use it. Speech is the same. Anatomy first!
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> dhw: For a dualist like yourself, this is a complete contradiction. The receiver would have to develop to meet the demands of the transmitter - enhanced consciousness. And enhanced consciousness requires enhanced expression: thought first, speech organs second.-Did you forget brain plasticity. Just like having to tune a radio to a station, humans had to develop the ability in their new-sized brain to receive consciousness. Both habilis and erectus did part of the job. And vocal tract changes developed along with the larger brain changes.