Different in degree or kind (Introduction)

by dhw, Thursday, November 07, 2013, 14:26 (4034 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: If order simply exists in the form of your God, how do you know that order does not exist in the form of a universe without a God? 
DAVID: You are proposing an orderly form of quantum particles all arranged by an orderly set of natural laws, that just happened to arrange themselves into a universe by chance?-I am not proposing, only offering alternatives. You are proposing an orderly form of quantum particles arranged by an orderly set of natural laws created by a single self-aware mind that just happens to have come from nowhere, been around for ever, and has the physical and mental powers to create anything from a universe to an amoeba.
 
dhw; What we see is a non-stop sequence of comings and goings...
DAVID: No we don't. We see a Big Bang creating a very orderly universe which has the characteristics of allowing life that results in sentient humans who now are gaining a partial understanding how it all works. [...]-What do you see in the universe that is not part of the non-stop sequence of comings and goings? Yes, there is order. And there is also disorder. And the orderly elements of the universe have resulted in life. That is as far as any of us can go ... the rest is speculation.-dhw: ...so maybe that is the natural orderly/disorderly course taken by energy and matter, and has been so for ever and ever. You may cry: How do you explain life and consciousness? To which, alas, I must reply as Dawkins does: "How do you explain God?" That does not make either of you right or wrong. It merely makes a mockery of the claim that one hypothesis is more "reasonable" than the other.-DAVID: My last comment brings a very strong odor of teleology. And you remain stochastically inclined. Dawkins off hand remark is the usual example of his shallow thinking. I'd rather try to explain why there is anything.-I do not remain stochastically inclined. I am an agnostic. This website is a direct result of my opposition to Dawkins' dogmatism, but if the question "How do you explain life and consciousness?" is not shallow, then nor is the question "How do you explain God?"