Different in degree or kind (Introduction)

by dhw, Friday, November 08, 2013, 19:47 (4033 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw; What do you see in the universe that is not part of the non-stop sequence of comings and goings? Yes, there is order. And there is also disorder. And the orderly elements of the universe have resulted in life. That is as far as any of us can go ... the rest is speculation.-DAVID: Agreed. I just want speculation that has some founding in the current reality we have scientifically explored.-And you have kindly told us roughly how many scientific explorers (90%) of current reality support your speculation that a universal intelligence preprogrammed the first living cells to produce all the innovations leading to human beings.-dhw: I do not remain stochastically inclined. I am an agnostic. This website is a direct result of my opposition to Dawkins' dogmatism, but if the question "How do you explain life and consciousness?" is not shallow, then nor is the question "How do you explain God?"-DAVID: The website is excellent, the discussions civil, and we have a tentative conclusion that chance mutation and natural selection are not the answer to how evolution worked. -I have no problem with natural selection, but of course it does not explain innovation ... only why some innovations survive and others don't. Chance mutation and gradualism are the two aspects we have agreed to jettison.
 
DAVID: Nor can we explain the appearance of the universe, of life, and of consciousness. All of these appear to require planning. Planning requires thought and therefore a mind to perform the planning. Why that mind is there for eternity is the only mystery. Something has to be eternal. There is no alternative to that statement.-Your "only mystery" is how eternal energy could have acquired consciousness. The atheist could also say that the "only mystery" is the appearance of life and consciousness on Earth. In both cases, wow, some mystery! Either of those is enough to make anybody sit on a picket fence.-DAVID: We do not obtain something from nothing. We can stop at this point in the discussion. I am satisfied not to go further than the thoughts in this paragraph. Remember I do not accept all of religions statements about the attributes of God. How can they know them. When Abraham asked God who he was, He said "I am who I am." Perfect reply. And I am immensely happy with that stopping point.-And of course I want you to be happy. BBella calls it The All That Is. Same idea. Only I don't think she gets it to talk.