Different in degree or kind: more Denton: (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, February 21, 2016, 12:39 (2977 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: The discussion was not about purpose as such but about the ID author's insistence that Darwinism and teleological theism were incompatible. I have gone to great lengths to explain why this argument is based on a false premise, because Darwinism allows for God creating the mechanism for evolution. I will assume you now accept that your author got it wrong.
DAVID: Of course theistic evolution and Darwin theory are not compatible. Evolution appears the same in both but the driving ofrces aree totally different.-You still haven't latched onto the fact that there are TWO driving forces: one that set the process in motion, and one that actually drives the process itself. Darwin does not deal with the one that set the process in motion. His theory allows for this to be your God. From then on, we are dealing with the second driving force, and I gave you various scenarios in which your God's mechanism fits in with the history of evolution.-dhw: If I believed in God, I would assume that this variety is what he wanted when he invented the process. Part of the fun may have been watching evolution come up with the unexpected (who wants to watch a show in which every development is known beforehand?). The more higgledy-piggledy, the more entertaining.
DAVID: Why does it have to be entertaining? God giggling is your form of anthropomorphizing Him.-It doesn't “have to be” anything. The above scenario explains the higgledy-piggledy history of evolution in terms of God's possible purpose. You believe that humans were the purpose, so I have also offered you scenarios in which humans are special. I'm not asking you to believe any of these different options. I am merely explaining how teleological theism can be perfectly compatible with Darwinian evolution.-dhw: Unlike you, I do not claim to be able to read God's mind, but when I look at the products that exist now, and at the higgledy-piggledy history of life on Earth, any one of the above explanations seems to me to fit in perfectly with both teleological theism and evolutionary theory. But they may not fit in with your own personal reading of your God's mind, purpose and character.-DAVID: They fit perfectly because on the surface they both look exactly alike.-Thank you. Yes, evolution will look the same whether your God planned it all or set it up to run its own free course through random mutations or an autonomous inventive mechanism. Which of them is correct we have no way of knowing, but if God exists, we can argue that whatever may have been his purpose, he set up the mechanism, the mechanism produced the history of evolution as we know it, and that history is what he intended. Therefore, since Darwin did not discount the existence of God as the prime mover, teleological theism and Darwinian evolution are compatible.