Different in degree or kind (Introduction)

by David Turell , Saturday, November 16, 2013, 02:41 (3811 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw; If I was satisfied, I would not have started up this website. But that doesn't mean I should embrace Dawkins' blind faith in chance or your blind faith in a nebulous UI. -But I have watched as I have moved you off your loving embrace of Darwin theory. Chance is one of the things you now can't accept.-> 
> dhw; You keep asking the same question, and I give you the same reply: the three equally unbelievable hypotheses of 1) God, 2) chance, 3) panpsychist evolution. Why do you refuse to consider the possibility that ant society developed through the intelligence of the organisms themselves?-Because intelligence is something that is developed by learning from information that is then collated into concepts and ideas. You have left out the origin of initial information in all of your formulations. Information is part of a first cause.-
> dhw: The answer to your question is yes, my description requires thought and decisions ... but not the self-aware, self-analytical thought and decisions of humans.-I savour the picture of cogitating ants.-> 
> dhw: I did not say we inherited our social rules from ants! You dismissed my list of formic attributes as "the most anthropomorphic rendition I have ever heard". It is not anthropomorphic to say that ant or any other animal society is built on the same ground rules as above ... i.e. those needs which are the reason for all societies, including ours, to form in the first place (even though modern "civilization" has greatly expanded our range). -No, you are right, ground rules are ground rules for formation of societal rules. They will generally follow the same path by necessity. But you come across with an anthropormorphic twist to the whole story when you decribe ants. I think they develop their societal habits by trying different reactions automatically and find solutions that way. DNA is then epigenetically modified to different habit patterns. That is the best explanation of instinct I can up with.->dhw: "Anthropomorphic" is a back-to-front denial of our descent from the animal kingdom.-No, equating animal activity in human terms is to be avoided.