Different in degree or kind: our hands (Introduction)

by dhw, Sunday, March 13, 2016, 13:40 (2965 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: So where are you going to draw the line? God gave some organisms innovative intelligence but others had to be preprogrammed or personally tutored? And according to you, all of them, extant and extinct, only serve/served the purpose of balancing nature in order to produce and feed us humans. Ah, where would we have been without the weaverbird's nest?
DAVID: I wish I knew why and how the nest exists. -Thank you for your honesty. I wish your awareness of these huge gaps in your theory would leave you open to other possible explanations (see below).-DAVID: It can be interpreted, as it is in a book by believers that God is the guide. On page 110 of Nature's I.Q. nine knots are displayed, and seven of which are highly complex and would make a sailor proud , all from these nests. BBella and dhw have not seen these knots ( I assume) yet they think the birds invented them in their theoretical discussions. Look at the knots!!!. Seeing is believing. Remember, I'm presenting my active research, not theory. I cannot accept this as bird inventiveness. -BBELLA: David, I have not only seen the knots, I've watched videos of the birds weaving them, and many more wondrous creative beings at work. If you accept (by faith and/or research) that ALL living beings have been imbued by an all powerful God, with any quantity - ANY!!!!, even a speck! of God's consciousness, how do you find it difficult to believe in the inventive nature of nature itself to create whatever is created? 
The ingredient: God, God consciousness, universal consciousness, or intelligence (whatever we might want to call "IT"), moves/uses the fabric of all that is, from a state of potential to a what IS state (entelechy). This ingredient of intelligence is connected to all intelligence that IS within the quantum field of reality and so has access to ALL intelligence that is or has every been, so is alive and well within the weaver bird creating that nest, don't you think?
DAVID: I think you are really agreeing with me. If God's intelligence is within the birds, He is showing them how to do it through that mechanism. They are not doing it independently.-BBella will no doubt answer for herself, but I really can't see how you can interpret “making every living thing innovative in their own way” and “the inventive nature of nature itself to create whatever is created” as meaning preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago or personally instructed by the individual mind you call God. There is a stark theistic choice here: either God gave organisms the intelligence to do their own inventing, or he did it for them. You admit that you can't see how or why he might have done it for the weaverbird's nest (not to mention the millions of other natural wonders, lifestyles etc. you think are too complex for insects, birds and animals to devise for themselves), and yet you won't consider the possibility that he might have given organisms the intelligence (BBella's “speck” of his consciousness) to invent them independently for their own benefit, as opposed to the benefit of humans. You are as stubborn as...as...me!