Different in degree or kind; language (Introduction)

by dhw, Friday, December 26, 2014, 08:21 (3621 days ago) @ Balance_Maintained

TONY: You seem to expect to be able to just sit down and have a chat, a two way conversation with God, perhaps over tea, where you ask questions directly and he responds directly, in spoken words in your given language. 
dhw: No, I am talking specifically about prayer.
TONY: I personally think of prayer as a mental letter, more than a direct conversation. I trust the the intended recipient reads it and acts appropriately.-I continue to question the point of prayer. By appropriately, do you mean what YOU consider to be appropriate, or what God considers to be appropriate? If you pray for help (e.g. with a sick child), do you initially assume God doesn't know the child is sick? If you think he knows, and if you think he will act “appropriately”, what is the point in praying to him for help?-TONY: ... Jehovah (YHWH) is described as "the hearer of prayers". The question then is, how does he answer.
dhw: That is indeed the question. If I address someone directly, yes, I expect an answer. If I consult an instruction manual, I hope to find the answers. I accept the latter as a parallel to your bible but if, for instance, someone prays to God to cure their child of an illness, I would not expect to find the answer in the bible. My guess is that sometimes such prayers are answered, and sometimes they are not. And my next guess would be that the outcome would depend on the nature of the illness rather than the direct response of God. In any case, no matter whether it's thumbs up or down, the faithful can always respond, “It's God's will.”-TONY: They could respond that way, but they would be wrong, and it would demonstrate a lack of biblical knowledge on their part. (Ecc 9:11) "I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle,+ nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches,+ nor do those with knowledge always have success,+ because time and unexpected events* overtake them all."-So if the child dies, it's NOT God's will? The quote appears to be telling us that sometimes we do and sometimes we don't get what we want/deserve/think we deserve. Very true, whether God exists or not. But if, as you say, the outcome does NOT depend on God's will, and if it doesn't depend on our own efforts and qualities, I can only conclude that the outcome is a matter of chance. The same applies if we pray for others (I deliberately chose the example of a sick child and not one of self-aggrandisement). God's will, or chance? Either way, your response suggests that apart from pleasing God by telling him how wonderful he is, prayer as a means of communicating with God is a futile activity.