Different in degree or kind (Introduction)

by David Turell , Friday, November 01, 2013, 15:10 (4040 days ago) @ dhw


> dhw: Not trying to needle you, but trying to point out that virtually all our activities are sophisticated developments of the basic instincts we've inherited from the animals we're descended from. Non-humans would not be able to survive if they didn't plan for the future, train their young, protect and feed themselves etc. We have institutionalized all these instinctive activities: we have schools to train our young, we have industries to provide food and shelter. Degree, not kind.-The jump in out abilities is enormous, but you don't seem to notice the size of the gap. 
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> dhw: As for the self-awareness which exceeds by far the consciousness of other animals, we ask questions they don't ask, and we seek to express ourselves and our reactions to the world we live in.......All the arts grow from the self-awareness of the artist/writer/sculptor/composer, whose first point of contact is himself, since he has to dig the work out of his own mind before being able to present it to others.-We don't have to dig, as we have been given the where-with-all tov easily conjure up all sorts of artisitic production and thought if so inclined. You really are agreeing with me
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> We're not talking about deep thought but about language as a means of communication. Each species has its own "language", which depends entirely on the physical means at its disposal. Our fellow mammals have voices, as we do, and they communicate by sound, as we did before we invented writing......"Infinitely greater" ... degree, not kind.-Still helping my argument. We have true complex language, with syntax built-in. We speak and we write. All animals do is grunt, meow, bark, nicker, all onomatopoeia words we use to imitate their poor method of communication.-
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> dhw: I do, however, have a philosophical as well as a "bleeding heart liberal" argument. You "know" you are different in kind, and you believe your God's purpose in starting life and evolution was to produce us humans. I agree that our degree of consciousness and our mastery of the environment are almost infinitely greater than those of our animal forebears. However, I do not see that as evidence (a) that there is a God, or (b) that if there is, he geared evolution to the production of humans, or (c) that in our basic needs we are so far apart from our animal ancestors that we can claim to have no kinship (= to be of a different kind). I see our sophistication as a huge extension to but not a departure from our animal origins.-We interpret those facts entirely differently. We have a kinship and a love for other animals. We have animal bodies, but God-like minds, excluding theodicy.