Evolution took a long time (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, February 26, 2017, 20:03 (2827 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: My thinking is what stops me from tilting, which is why I am on the picket fence. This means that I am in the wrong, because either God exists or he doesn’t. However, in terms of reading a possible God’s intentions, all we can do is try to fit our theories to what we know of his creations. Since your own evolutionary theory, “tilted” by your conclusion, makes no sense to you,

My theories about evolution make perfect sense to me. I don't know why you keep repeating the 'no sense' mantra like a campaign slogan. God controlled evolution as his chosen method of producing humans. What I don't know is how much pre-programming or dabbling occurred.

dhw: Whereas you have admitted that mine fits in perfectly with the history of life as we know it (and even allows for a special dabble in the case of humans), I would suggest that my thought pattern is not half as skewed as yours!

Your suppositions fit the history, but doesn't mean they are correct. I think evolution is guided and yours favors chance progression.

dhw: I’m not questioning the importance of bees to the current balance of nature. You have now conceded on several occasions that your God may have given organisms an autonomous, intelligent, inventive mechanism, but every time I try to pin you down (the latest being frogs’ tongues, carnivorous plants and bees), you have opted for divine preprogramming or dabbling. Would you please put me out of my suspense and give me a concrete example of original, inventive design (not minor adaptations) which you think might have been produced by the autonomous, intelligent, inventive mechanism you have now agreed is possible.

Frankly, I don't know of any. We see epigenetic adaptations, many described on this site. All are relatively minor compared to speciation.

DAVID: Isn't a designer required if chance won't work?
dhw: Yes. But that does not mean the designer designed every life form in order to get to humans.
DAVID: Of course what a designer does is design.

dhw: A designer can design a mechanism that could do its own designing. If your divine designer exists, this is clearly what he has done in the case of humans, unless you think he preprogrammed or dabbled every human invention. I am suggesting that he has given the same mechanism – though far more limited in scope – to other organisms.

More limited scope as in epigenetic adaptations to environmental stresses. Fine.