Evolution took a long time (Introduction)

by dhw, Monday, February 13, 2017, 13:31 (2840 days ago) @ David Turell

Dhw: It is impossible to look for purpose without “humanizing”, and as I have said before, it is just as presumptuous to assume that he has no human attributes as to assume that he has none.
DAVID: You have had Him looking for entertainment or enjoyment. That is what I object to. I see humans here when there are no good reason for it, except God's desire to produce them. For me it is easy to accept that as a primary fact. How that creates emotions in Him is an area that need not be considered.

I didn’t say that the presence of humans “creates emotions in Him”. My point is a) that (if he exists) he must have had a reason for creating humans, and b) it is not unreasonable to suppose that since nothing existed before him, he may share some of the attributes with which he has endowed us humans. But you are right: we do not “need” to consider any of the subjects we discuss. However, we have embarked on these discussions because they are important to us, and I do not see why we should suddenly limit their scope to your own guesses concerning God’s purposes.

DAVID: Figuring out how to relate to His personage is a more difficult issue. I approach Him hoping He is interested, nothing more. Bleak? Yes. But anything more is a human invention based on how we are.

In your next passage you tell us: “I’m sure He is watching.” One moment you hope, the next moment you are sure (unless you think he watches although he’s NOT interested) - and why shouldn’t you be sure, since that is your faith? But what in my view you should not do is attack alternatives on the grounds that they “humanize” God, when your own faith is based on your own humanized version of him. See my final comment.

DAVID: I stick by my approach that He has objectives (purposes) without experiencing self-satisfaction, as we do.

Pure speculation on your part.

DAVID: I do not think He could avoid the problems that come as part of the creation of a living planet…

And yet you accused me of trying to impose limitations on his powers!

DAVID: ...but with our brains we have solved many so far. He didn't ask us to solve the problems created, He gave us the brains so we could, because we are forced to.

I believe you when you say he didn’t actually order you to solve the problems, but you have told us that was his “tough-love” purpose.

DAVID: And I'm sure He is watching. My humanizing approach is quite opposite yours.

That is the nub of the whole matter. You dismiss alternative versions of your God’s purpose on the grounds that they “humanize” him, though you admit that your own version also humanizes him. The problem is quite simply that you do not want to consider any view of God’s purpose that differs from your own. One last question: since you are always the one looking for purpose, and since you are sure God created us, and since you are sure God is watching us, what do you think might be God’s purpose for watching us?