Evolution took a long time (Introduction)

by dhw, Saturday, February 11, 2017, 13:13 (2842 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: We cannot know his thought patterns, since He is not human, and we are. We have to work backwards from what is created, where we might then see something that looks like purpose. We need to avoid describing what God may see as a personal purpose for Himself.
dhw: Why? The fact that we cannot know his purpose or his nature does not mean we mustn’t speculate. In fact, it’s only natural that we should. You have asked yourself why humans are here, and you guess that God specially produced us. You have asked yourself why he specially produced us, and you guess that he wants a relationship with us. You have convinced yourself that there is not a smidgen of evil in your God, and you have asked yourself why in that case there is evil in the world, and you guess that he is a God of tough love who expects us to solve the problems he sets us. If you can guess at God’s personal purposes, why shouldn’t I?
DAVID: You certainly may analyze God's purposes. Note those of mine you listed contained no reference to God's purpose as it related to God's self obtaining a self-reward such as your proposal of entertainment!

Wanting to produce humans, wanting a relationship, and wanting us to solve problems are put forward by you as your God’s purposes, but you are convinced that his purposes do not include any benefit to himself. I really don’t know why you should believe that your God would go to all that trouble if he didn’t get SOMETHING out of it for himself, but that is part of the great muddle: you keep telling me that God is all-purposeful, and you are the one who sees purpose everywhere, but you just cannot (or do not want to) imagine that your God has any purpose beyond creating you and setting you problems.

DAVID: That is what has no evidence to support it. What is produced in creation does allow a proposal of purpose as theory. Note the differentiation.
dhw: The history of evolution allows a proposal of purpose and of non-purpose as theory, just as the existence of life and the universe allows a proposal of God and non-God as theory, just as the hypothetical existence of God allows a proposal of different divine purposes as theories. There is evidence to support all theories (otherwise they would be sheer nonsense), but there is no evidence to provide conclusive proof (otherwise the theories would become facts). The history of philosophy would have been pretty bare if humans were only allowed to speculate on matters they can actually “know”.
DAVID: I totally agree with your statement.

Great. Then perhaps you will now understand why other people speculate, as you do, on your God's purpose in creating you, me and them, why they even come up with views that conflict with your own speculations, and why they are just as entitled to their guesses as you are. I include such theories as having a relationship with us,testing us with problems, teaching us, preparing us for a new life in the hereafter, worshipping him, and - last but not least - entertaining him.