Evolution took a long time (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, January 01, 2017, 19:30 (2883 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: I strongly object to your theory, as usual, since I feel any advanced designing requires a conscious mind, as in proceeding from early whale one to early whale two, with tremendous physiological changes from one to the other.

dhw: I agree that advanced designing requires a conscious mind (or cooperating minds), if by “conscious” you mean sentient, intelligent, information-processing, communicative, cooperative, decision-making (but not to be equated with the self-awareness of humans). That is the whole point of my hypothesis.

And I reject the point. How does pre-whale one design pre-whale two? Where is the mind to do all the planning required. Remember it is a big gap in form, physiology and function.

DAVID: I've not been clear, based on your comment. The freewheeling concept is to be seen stepwise. First, the organisms have a mechanism that allows them to try something (freewheeling), but then, secondly, God steps in and alters the change to a direction of evolution He likes.

dhw: So what is it you strongly object to? On 29 December I wrote: “Either the mechanism is free and therefore autonomous (UNTIL it is dabbled with) or it is preprogrammed.” Now you are saying that first the mechanism is free(wheeling), and second God dabbles. No difference. So what makes you so certain that your God disapproved of every innovation, lifestyle and natural wonder that organisms “freewheeled” throughout the history of life (since you insist that he designed them all)? Did the weaverbird, for instance, design its own nest but your God didn't like it, so taught the bird how to tie knots (because presumably a knotty nest was for some reason essential to the production of humans)?

You pounce on an attempt at a theory of freewheeling. It is reasonable that some simple changes were approved by God under this concept which is exactly what I have described. As for the weaver nest, you have no reasonable explanation either. The knots are obviously too complex for the bird to have invented by itself. The nest hangs like a sack or sling. It had to be invented all at once or it wouldn't work, or haven't you noticed? Back to saltation.