Evolution took a long time (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, January 10, 2017, 14:25 (2874 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Because one of the molecules is DNA and we don't know but a tiny portion of its attributes. The instructions are there.
dhw: The undiscovered, 3.8-billion-year-old instructions for every solution to every problem throughout the history of bacterial life past, present and future are stored in a molecule we don’t know much about, but we do know enough about all the molecules to say that the intelligent behaviour of bacteria can’t be caused by intelligence. The wonders of science.
DAVID: Of course it is caused by intelligence, but it is the intelligence that gave the cells their automatic plans of action.

The “automatic plans of action” are the undiscovered 3.8-billion-year-old instructions which your God apparently implanted in the first cells to enable bacteria to solve every individual problem they will encounter throughout life’s history. And you state this as if it were a fact!

DAVID: See this website showing how macrophages, giant cells of immunity engulf an enemy.
https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/watch-a-predatory-immune-cell-capture-and-engulf-its...

QUOTE: "Immune cells such as macrophages sense biochemical cues in their environment to track down invaders and eventually engulf and neutralise them." (David’s bold)

Yes of course they sense biochemical clues. All organisms sense cues in their environment, and the senses – of whatever kind – work automatically. Intelligence is the faculty that uses the information provided by the senses.

David’s comment: It is my belief that the way bacteria live and work is exactly mimicked by the cells in our bodies working for us. I view early evolution as a developmental process to prepare for these cells.

That is my view too: that the intelligent behaviour of bacteria is exactly mimicked by the intelligent behaviour of cells/cell communities. Most of these activities are automatic, but (a) these activities must have had an origin, which in my hypothesis is the intelligent, inventive mechanism, and (b) intelligence is brought to bear when bacteria/cell communities are confronted with problems.

DAVID: I accepted a stepwise process for the IM.
dhw: You wrote: “The organism freely tries a change and God approves or alters the change. The initiative starts with the organism, not God.” How can a mechanism that freely tries a change be anything but a free mechanism for change? The next “step” according to you is a divine dabble unless the work of the autonomous, intelligent, inventive mechanism has had his approval.
DAVID: That is certainly stepwise, with an initial 'free' try for a change.

My focus is on the ‘free’ try, which is only possible if the organism is free to try, i.e. has an autonomous, intelligent, inventive mechanism. How else could it be ‘free’?

DAVID: The organisms makes an adaptation and God either accepts or adjusts. But we know evolution existed. You want God to wander around befuddled. The answer is simple God prefers evolving things, the evolving universe, evolving life.
dhw: You don’t have to wander around befuddled in order to conduct a scientific experiment. I am simply offering you different theistic hypotheses that will remove the illogicality of your own hypothesis
DAVID: Your theorizing does fit a possible interpretation of past evolution, but it still presents a tentative God who is not sure of where He is going. I view God as a very purposeful guy who know exactly where He is taking things.

In other words, your interpretation of evolution’s history is not based on that history at all, but on your preconceived ideas concerning the nature of God. However, the hypothesis of an intentional free-for-all spectacle removes the “tentativeness” you don’t like. So what is your objection to that?