Evolution took a long time (Introduction)
BBELLA: Why would God have to use an inventive mechanism or write the software for all life, when he could just BE the IM (I AM) and/or BE the software?
DAVID: That is part of my dilemma: God could have written all the software in the genome in the beginning of life or He could ride herd and originate every step forward. Either way He is in total control, of which fact I am convinced.
dhw: If you agree with BBella that your God could actually BE the inventive mechanism inside every organism, you have just added to your dilemma. You claim that some organisms may look as if they’re intelligent, but you don’t accept that they are, or that they could be intelligent enough to do their own inventing. Apparently, however, they clearly are intelligent and even inventive enough to do their own inventing so long as we call that intelligence “God” instead of an inventive mechanism possibly invented by your God. (Presumably the 99% extinction rate would then count as divine species suicide rather than natural death, since your God is always in control.)
BBella’s suggestion need not involve God at all if we apply my version of panpsychism to all organisms. Then each one has its own individual “intelligence”, which may or may not be adaptable or creative. In my view just as likely and just as unlikely as any other hypothesis.
DAVID: I'm happily content in my own position. God controls evolution, with only the mechanism debated. Speciation requires it based on current scientific knowledge of the needs of the process. That is, the changes are too complex for a chance attempt at it.
Neither BBella’s hypothesis nor mine has anything to do with chance, and both quite explicitly allow for God. The debate is indeed about the mechanism, and you clearly prefer not to acknowledge the anomaly in your argument as explained in my post above, as well as in your non-acceptance of mine on grounds of no evidence while you accept your own although there is no evidence.
Complete thread:
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-06-08, 14:46
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
George Jelliss,
2011-06-09, 00:04
- Life\'s biologic complexity - David Turell, 2011-06-09, 14:48
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-07-14, 14:56
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-07-14, 15:05
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-07-15, 02:09
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-09-02, 14:53
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-09-03, 15:38
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-09-16, 19:00
- Life\'s biologic complexity - David Turell, 2011-09-19, 18:02
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-09-29, 18:03
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-09-30, 15:31
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-10-01, 02:21
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-10-01, 05:13
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-10-03, 19:45
- Life\'s biologic complexity - David Turell, 2011-10-16, 17:18
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-10-03, 19:45
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-10-01, 05:13
- Life\'s biologic complexity - David Turell, 2011-12-12, 17:59
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-10-01, 02:21
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-09-30, 15:31
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-09-16, 19:00
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-09-09, 15:26
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-10-10, 00:00
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions - David Turell, 2016-10-10, 18:03
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-10-11, 14:52
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-10-11, 18:47
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-10-12, 12:16
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-10-12, 14:49
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-10-13, 12:40
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
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2016-10-14, 01:47
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- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-11-28, 17:50
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dhw,
2016-11-29, 11:31
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-11-29, 19:28
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-11-30, 12:18
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-11-30, 15:33
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-01, 13:08
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-01, 19:03
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-02, 10:32
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-03, 00:28
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-03, 13:33
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
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2016-12-03, 14:31
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-04, 12:12
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-04, 17:33
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-05, 13:58
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-05, 15:28
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dhw,
2016-12-06, 10:15
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-06, 16:24
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-07, 13:02
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-07, 18:36
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dhw,
2016-12-08, 10:45
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-09, 01:06
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-09, 17:33
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-09, 19:32
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dhw,
2016-12-10, 12:25
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-10, 22:36
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-11, 13:13
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-11, 21:19
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-12, 15:49
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-12, 17:40
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-13, 13:12
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-13, 19:52
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-14, 14:01
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-14, 18:41
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-15, 16:53
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-15, 20:45
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-16, 12:30
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-16, 20:17
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-17, 13:47
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-17, 15:05
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-18, 13:39
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-18, 21:51
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-19, 12:54
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-19, 18:35
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-20, 12:58
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-20, 19:24
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dhw,
2016-12-21, 18:01
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2016-12-21, 21:14
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dhw,
2016-12-22, 13:21
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David Turell,
2016-12-22, 16:08
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dhw,
2016-12-23, 12:24
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David Turell,
2016-12-23, 18:13
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dhw,
2016-12-24, 12:41
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2016-12-24, 18:17
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dhw,
2016-12-27, 13:02
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2016-12-27, 18:21
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2016-12-28, 12:31
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2016-12-28, 19:23
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dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2016-12-29, 18:54
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dhw,
2016-12-30, 13:05
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2016-12-31, 00:59
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2016-12-31, 12:47
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2016-12-31, 15:48
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
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2017-01-01, 19:30
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dhw,
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2017-01-02, 17:50
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dhw,
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2017-01-04, 00:25
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dhw,
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2017-01-04, 18:35
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dhw,
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2017-01-07, 01:12
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dhw,
2017-01-07, 13:03
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David Turell,
2017-01-07, 18:45
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2017-01-07, 20:31
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dhw,
2017-01-08, 13:56
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2017-01-08, 21:16
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dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time: C elegans learning - David Turell, 2017-01-09, 17:25
- Evolution took a long time: C elegans learning -
dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time: C elegans learning -
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2017-01-08, 21:16
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dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
BBella,
2017-01-07, 20:51
- Evolution took a long time -
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2017-01-08, 02:03
- Evolution took a long time -
BBella,
2017-01-08, 03:44
- Evolution took a long time - David Turell, 2017-01-08, 21:07
- Evolution took a long time -
BBella,
2017-01-08, 03:44
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David Turell,
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dhw,
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dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
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- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
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2017-01-16, 16:25
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
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- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-18, 18:19
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2017-01-19, 13:19
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-19, 15:07
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2017-01-20, 17:33
- Evolution took a long time -
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2017-01-20, 21:18
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dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
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dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
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dhw,
2017-01-23, 16:05
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-23, 19:07
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
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2017-01-24, 15:32
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dhw,
2017-01-25, 13:56
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-26, 02:02
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-26, 02:02
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
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- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
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dhw,
2017-01-23, 16:05
- Evolution took a long time -
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dhw,
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dhw,
2017-01-21, 13:26
- Evolution took a long time -
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dhw,
2017-01-20, 17:33
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dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2017-01-18, 12:52
- Evolution took a long time -
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2017-01-17, 20:07
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2017-01-17, 11:13
- Evolution took a long time -
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- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2017-01-16, 12:55
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-15, 19:05
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dhw,
2017-01-15, 11:59
- Evolution took a long time -
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dhw,
2017-01-14, 12:51
- Evolution took a long time -
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2017-01-13, 20:11
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2017-01-13, 12:55
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-12, 23:19
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2017-01-12, 12:41
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-12, 01:49
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
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- Evolution took a long time -
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2017-01-10, 17:33
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dhw,
2017-01-10, 14:25
- Evolution took a long time -
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2017-01-09, 15:06
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dhw,
2017-01-09, 12:21
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2017-01-08, 21:14
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David Turell,
2017-01-07, 20:31
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-07, 18:45
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2017-01-07, 13:03
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-07, 01:12
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2017-01-06, 13:26
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-05, 18:20
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dhw,
2017-01-05, 11:17
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David Turell,
2017-01-04, 18:35
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dhw,
2017-01-04, 17:40
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-04, 00:25
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dhw,
2017-01-03, 15:29
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-02, 17:50
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dhw,
2017-01-02, 15:49
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2017-01-01, 19:30
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dhw,
2017-01-01, 11:36
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David Turell,
2016-12-31, 15:48
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dhw,
2016-12-31, 12:47
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2016-12-31, 00:59
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dhw,
2016-12-30, 13:05
- Evolution took a long time -
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2016-12-29, 18:54
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dhw,
2016-12-29, 13:29
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2016-12-28, 19:23
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2016-12-28, 12:31
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2016-12-27, 18:21
- Evolution took a long time -
dhw,
2016-12-27, 13:02
- Evolution took a long time -
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2016-12-24, 18:17
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dhw,
2016-12-24, 12:41
- Evolution took a long time -
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2016-12-23, 18:13
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dhw,
2016-12-23, 12:24
- Evolution took a long time -
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2016-12-22, 16:08
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dhw,
2016-12-22, 13:21
- Evolution took a long time -
David Turell,
2016-12-21, 21:14
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-21, 18:01
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-20, 19:24
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-20, 12:58
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-19, 18:35
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-19, 12:54
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-18, 21:51
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-18, 13:39
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-17, 15:05
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-17, 13:47
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-16, 20:17
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-16, 12:30
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-15, 20:45
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-15, 16:53
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-14, 18:41
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-14, 14:01
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-13, 19:52
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-13, 13:12
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-12, 17:40
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-12, 15:49
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-11, 21:19
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-11, 13:13
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-10, 22:36
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-10, 12:25
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-09, 19:32
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-09, 17:33
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-09, 01:06
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-08, 10:45
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-07, 18:36
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-07, 13:02
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-06, 16:24
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-06, 10:15
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-05, 15:28
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-05, 13:58
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-04, 17:33
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-04, 12:12
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-03, 14:31
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-03, 13:33
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-03, 00:28
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-02, 10:32
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-12-01, 19:03
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-12-01, 13:08
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-11-30, 15:33
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-11-30, 12:18
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-11-29, 19:28
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-11-29, 11:31
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-10-14, 01:47
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-10-13, 12:40
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-10-12, 14:49
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
dhw,
2016-10-12, 12:16
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-10-11, 18:47
- Life's biologic complexity: Automatic molecular actions -
David Turell,
2016-10-10, 00:00
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
2011-09-03, 15:38
- Life\'s biologic complexity -
David Turell,
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