New Miscellany 1 & 2: humanizing, intell., Milkdromeda etc. (General)

by David Turell , Monday, June 09, 2025, 17:15 (2 days ago) @ dhw

Humanization

dhw: Why do you think he gave humans free will?

DAVID: So we could communicate with and about Him.

dhw: Thank you. Since you tell me to ask God for the answers to all the questions relating to your illogical theories, communication with him is clearly not possible. (If he won’t tell you, he certainly won’t tell me!) Earlier you distorted my theories of your God’s purpose by making it sound as if he “needed” enjoyment and “needed” to experiment. However, your response fits in neatly with your earlier answer that he may want us to recognize and worship him, which unquestionably suggest a need or, at the very least, a human-like desire for attention. My point is that you cannot provide your God with any sort of purpose without humanizing him one way or another, so once and for all, please stop pooh-poohing my alternative theistic theories on grounds of “humanization”.

My God is an obvious contrast to yours. I do describe ways in which He might relate to us and we to Him. You describe His 'interest' in free-for-all in a way that strongly suggests entertainment; His need to experiment shows a lack of directed purpose. My God has none of this. What appears to be experimentation in God's evolution is actually the development of many interacting ecosystems as resources for humans.

Animal intelligence: the opossum

DAVID: Part of a necessary ecosystem.

dhw: do you really think your God specially designed the opossum and specially designed its death-defying strategy just for our benefit?

You are magnifying a tiny cog in a tiny ecosystem. Yes.

Bacterial antibiotic resistance

DAVID: Teams of cells rely upon each other.

dhw: Of course they do. And how would they rely on each other if they were unable to absorb, share and process information, and communicate with one another in order to decide on and coordinate their actions?

We agree except I think they do it automatically, no 'thought' involved.

Atheism

DAVID: Viruses and bacteria were especially created.

dhw: Even worse! And is God’s special creation of murderous viruses and bacteria part of the “accepted conceptual form of the Biblical God”? How about the other items on my list?

The Bible does not discuss ape ancestors. Bacteria and viruses are necessary for all the good they do.

Milky Way not hitting Andromeda

DAVID: Our brain should convince you a designer God exists.

dhw: As you know perfectly well, I accept the rationality of the design argument. But this solution to the mystery of the brain, and indeed all life, creates an even greater mystery – how could the superintelligent mind of an immaterial designer have come from nothing and simply existed forever?

Always existed is my position. Why is there anything?

Biochemical controls in plants and animals

DAVID: this study shows how interrelated plant and animal metabolisms are.

dhw: It’s a fascinating subject. Since all life is believed to have descended from single cells, we shouldn’t be surprised at similarities and common elements, and I shall never forget a conversation I had with a tree surgeon, who had absolutely no doubt that trees were sentient and communicative. It’s clear from some of the articles you have posted that this extends to other plants, with examples of symbiosis and strategies that could only come about through some form of intelligent awareness.

An intelligent awareness designed by God.