New Miscellany: more on fine-tuning (General)

by David Turell , Saturday, February 22, 2025, 20:44 (11 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: The discussion has nothing to do with origin of life. […]

dhw: This is the daftest of all your arguments. How can you possibly say that everywhere in the universe is fine-tuned for life if our planet is the only place we know that has produced life?

DAVID: Because the 20+ necessary factors make this universe exist! That is the level of this discussion, not the appearance of life. Your view is absolutely wrong.

dhw: “The universe is fine-tuned for life” has nothing to do with the appearance of life in the universe? Are you joking? Once more: How do you know the whole universe is fine-tuned for life if the only life we know of is our own?

Don't you read what I say. The composition of this universe is fine-tuned because the 20+ factors that define this universe and create this universe as it is.

DAVID: It is the makeup of this universe that allows life to appear. That is the primary concept you miss.
And:
DAVID: The real history of fine-tuning: Life is here and physicists have worked backward to define the requirements. Amazingly they are precisely fine-tuned!

dhw: They have defined the requirements for life, and amazingly the requirements are what is required for life, and this has nothing to do with the origin of life! Yes, life is here, and so all the fine-tuning necessary for life has occurred here. Yes, the universe is as it is, and it has “allowed” life to happen. Otherwise, it could not have happened! But you tell us that “fine tuning for life is everywhere in the universe. Life can then appear in any spot that evolves life hospitality as it did on Earth.” Your theoretical “can” doesn’t mean that it does, and “any spot” will still only be a minuscule fragment of the universe – not the entire universe. Yes, we know some of the material requirements for life, but that does not mean life can “pop up” just because conditions are suitable.

We do not know how life decides to appear. We do not know how life originates. We know this universe is hospitable for life. And we know that it is possible for life to appear anywhere within the universe. We search for aliens!

dhw: How inanimate matter can be “fine-tuned” to become animate remains a mystery. That’s what we mean by the “origin of life”. It is the ultimate piece of fine-tuning, and the only fine-tuned “spot” we know of in the entire universe is Planet Earth.

Nonsense! Origin of life is a separate package which can only appear in a specific fine-tuned universe waiting for it.

Biological complexity

QUOTE: We hope that one day we will be able to unlock the secret of how nature produces all the oxygen molecules that surround us and that we breathe every day," says Ablyasova."

DAVID: it took highly sophisticated lab work to do it. How do natural mutations achieve such a complex enzyme? Not by chance.

dhw: So it's all part of the "fine-tuning", and you think the whole universe combines all of these highly sophisticated factors, and life can pop up [= originate] anywhere. Once more: you can only know that a place is fine-tuned for life if it harbours or has harboured life! What other proof can you possibly have?

Do you deliberately forget my presentations? The CMB tells us the universe is uniform throughout. The 20+ factors that define and form this universe are everywhere.

Bird brains

dhw: So your God provided the first cells with programmes for every species, every strategy, every response to every new threat/opportunity, to be passed on through billions of years even into our present and future. I get it. I just don’t believe it.

DAVID: Immunity proves it. One system makes antibodies for everything!

dhw: One “system” (the brain) invents rockets, writes symphonies, fights diseases, discusses the mysteries of life. It can do what it does because it has its own autonomous intelligence. Its thoughts are not programmed. The “system” is the mechanism which acts or reacts to create something new. The intelligent cell processes new information, communicates with other cells, and takes decisions in order to make new antibodies in response to new invaders. I propose that this is a more likely “system” than a 3.8-billion-year-old programme for every future situation. No need to repeat the LUCA section, since the same argument applies.

One simple immune system makes antibodies for every enemy. Take a piece of the invader, add a killer portion to it and an antibody appears.