New Miscellany (General)

by dhw, Sunday, January 26, 2025, 13:13 (4 days ago) @ David Turell

LUCA

QUOTE: The inferred age suggests that the process required a surprisingly short interval of geologic time.

DAVID: The striking point is how quickly life appeared after the Earth formed. Strongly supports the concept of a designer at work.

dhw: Now perhaps you will tell us how you and the author know how long life normally takes to appear.

DAVID: Impossible!!! We have evidence of first life, but it has an unknown starting point. we don't know how it started!!!

dhw: So you and the author have no possible grounds for telling us that life appeared surprisingly quickly (supporting the concept of design). This would only be a surprise if you knew how long life normally takes to appear! (Three exclamation marks if you like.)

DAVID: You are in lala land. There are fossils of ancient life at 3.8 billion year ago and suggestive fossils at 4.1, with the Earth formed at 4.5. At 4.1 all of the necessary factors were in place for life to start as the fossils show. You are corrupted with the idea fossils have birthdays. How life starts is totally unknown. Where is unknown. When is unknown.

Thank you for this summary of what is known and what is unknown. It is the unknown factors which show precisely why you and the author are “in lala land” when you claim that the time taken for life to appear on Earth was “surprisingly short”. It could only have been surprisingly short (you say “how quickly” it appeared) if you already knew how long it normally takes for life to appear anywhere. You don’t.

T-cells help gut immunity

dhw: The whole article exemplifies the manner in which cells can transform themselves in response to different requirements, and cooperate with other cells within their community. Cells “instructing” other cells as and when necessary suggests to me (as it does to many experts in the field) that cells have the autonomous ability to absorb and process information and take their own decisions on how to use it. The possible origin of this form of intelligence is, of course, an open question, and I for one can quite understand the view that it would require a designer God to create such a mechanism. (David’s bold)

DAVID: I agree.

dhw: This should be a red letter day, as you have hitherto been so resolutely opposed to the concept of cellular intelligence. I’ll hold onto your agreement while it lasts.

DAVID: I agreed to your final comment above now bolded as it covers your God designer conclusion. It explains all of the preceding discussion you offer.

God as designer is not a conclusion but a rational possibility. In your original response, you did not bold the final comment. However, I think there is still hope that you will also come round to the possibility that cells/cell communities have autonomous intelligence that enables them to make their own designs and decisions. After all, on the “balance of nature” thread, you have frequently accepted that our fellow creatures do have it (e.g. all birds except weavers), and we and they are all made of cell communities cooperating with other cell communities!