New Miscellany (General)

by dhw, Wednesday, February 05, 2025, 12:00 (29 days ago) @ David Turell

First life

DAVID: You've asked me about my surprise as to when life appeared. Do you know how long is necessary?

Of course not. Nobody knows whether our 70,000,000 (or even 40,000,000) years were long or short, because we have no other life to compare it with! And so you have no grounds for saying this was a surprisingly quick development, thus supporting the design theory.

dhw: Just as I can ask why your all-knowing, all-powerful God took so long and designed so many irrelevant species and ecosystems if his one and only purpose was to design us and our food.

DAVID: Your usual total distortion of the history of evolution. All that evolved is here today for our use.

dhw: Your usual distortion of the history of evolution: has nobody ever told you that approximately 99% of what evolved is NOT here today? Only approximately 1% of what evolved is here today.

DAVID: Yes, I'm fully aware just 0.1% survived, but look at the glorious result: the magnificent variety of living resources for human to use.

Your statement had nothing to with the wonders of the present world. Your claim that “All that evolved is here today for our use” is sheer nonsense, because approx. 99% of what evolved is not here today, and could not have been for our use. Only 1% is here today, and even that does not mean it was all designed for our use!

T-cells and immunity

DAVID: from our cancer society: in a nation of over 300 million about 600,000 will die this year of cancer. Where are dhw's millions? Let's see support.

I gave you the figure of approx. 9.7 million worldwide in 2022, as announced by your American Cancer Society.

DAVID: Fully explained previously: side effects of God's good works. He gave us life. Should He take it back?

Stop dodging! You challenged my point that millions of people died from cancer, which means your God’s 3.8-billion-years-old instructions failed in millions of cases. Another example of his inefficiency. Why do you keep ridiculing him? Maybe you’re wrong, and he did NOT issue instructions 3.8 billion years ago! Let’s consider your new entry on the same subject:

QUOTES: "Indeed, this study […]supports the involvement of multiple APC types in the cascade of events leading to long-term tolerance of food antigens. […] The authors proposed that these RORγt-expressing cells played an important part in tolerance induction immediately following food antigen exposure, while cDCs took on a larger role at slightly later time points.

“So, it's a compartmentalization of dietary versus pathogen-derived antigens by different antigen-presenting cells.'”

DAVID: […] This could not develop by chance since it manages the diet of hominins from early Erectus to sapiens over millions of years, constantly changing antigens to handle.

I don’t know why you’ve singled out hominins, since these experiments were carried out on mice. I agree as regards chance. The article shows how the process has developed through cells communicating, adapting, changing roles and cooperating in response to different demands at different times. And so maybe instead of your God issuing inefficient instructions 3.8 billion years ago, he gave cells the autonomous ability to make their own designs and decisions, and success or failure depended on them and not on him. Worth considering? Or do you still insist on your God's inefficiency?

The brain

dhw: I have pointed out that the brain is a community of cell communities, all of which cooperate with one another. If your God gave our brain cells autonomy, why do you think he was incapable of giving autonomy to all cells?

DAVID: It was not required While you constantly plead for nonexistent intelligent deigning cells.

What was not required? Some sort of intelligence was/is required for survival, adaptation and innovation. You plead for a 3.8-billion-year-old set of instructions which sometimes fail, but you agree that our brain cells do their own intelligent designing. Why do you think it is impossible for God to have given the same ability to all kinds of cells?

Extremophiles

DAVID: […] It is ecosystems all the way down. In a universe fine-tuned for life, the outcome is not surprising.

dhw: I don’t know about the universe being fine-tuned for life, since ours is the only planet we know that actually hosts it. […]

DAVID: […] Have you forgotten all the fine-tuning philosophy?

dhw: Considering that approximately 95% of the universe is unknown to us, and the only life we actually know of us is ours, I think it’s a bit premature to say that the whole universe is fine-tuned for life.

DAVID: At least this portion certainly is.

Nobody will deny that this portion has conditions suitable for life! That does not mean that the unknown rest of the universe is also “fine-tuned” for life.

dhw: And we needn’t dwell on your absurd belief that every species and ecosystem for the first 3.X000,000,000 years of life’s history was specially designed for the sake of the humans who were not even around at the time.

DAVID: All evolutionary preparation for our arrival.

There we go again! 99% of species and ecosystems had no connection with us and our food. You have confirmed above that only 1% have evolved into the current world, but you still disagree with yourself.