New Miscellany 2: birds, chimps, snails, corvids, parrots (General)

by dhw, Wednesday, May 28, 2025, 11:13 (5 days ago) @ dhw

Bird migration

DAVID: How did they 'learn what is needed'? No answer. What did the birds do to 'learn'?

dhw: What does anyone do to learn? Either they are taught, or they learn from experience, or they inherit successful physical changes. It would have taken many generations of exploration, accumulated experiences and adaptations before they established their routes and before their cells made the final necessary adjustments triggered by the signs of approaching winter.

DAVID: You are proposing the birds say "winter is bad, let's look for a better winter spot." And gradually it becomes long distance. That is conceptualizing more than birds might be capable of, but it might work.

There’s no “conceptualizing”! They find that travelling a short distance makes no difference. They still freeze. So they look further afield. They learn, as we do, from experience. What is your alternative?

dhw: Do you really believe that one autumn day, your God popped in to give birds their “mighty microchondria” de novo, plus a map to guide them to summer 10,000 miles away? Please answer.'

DAVID: The answer is God, the designer, speciates as I've said before.

And:

DAVID: […] Speciation provides all that is necessary for preparation and routes.

dhw: How?

DAVID: Preparing the body for long flights coded into the new DNA.

So one day in autumn, your God said to the birds: “Winter’s gonna be cold here. You’re gonna have to fly 10,000 miles to the nearest warm place, so fer the sake of human bein’s an’ their food, I’m gonna operate on your DNA now, make you into a different species though you'll still be birdy you, an’ here’s a map to guide you.” Dante wrote The Divine Comedy. I reckon you’re writing a sequel here. Let’s call it The Divine Farce.

Chimps ‘r’ not us

DAVID: Yes brain, but our exceptional bodies allow exceptional movements formalized in gymnastics.

dhw: And dogs’ noses allow exceptional sensitivity to smell. What is your point, other than to accuse me of “abhorring” our exceptionality because I say it is our brain power that makes us exceptional.

DAVID: Plus our amazing physical capacities. We are more than you recognize.

I could add to my dogs, cheetahs and camels a list of animals with far more “amazing physical capacities” than ours. So what? Do you think it’s our ability to turn somersaults and do a Fosbury Flop that has given us dominion over the Earth?

Armored deep-sea snails

dhw: No matter what the conditions, the cells of which all organisms are made will find a way to survive. But I cannot believe for one second that they and every extremophile that ever existed, extant or extinct, were specially designed for the use of us humans. The design argument would apply to the origin of every species, which is the cell and its ability to “use whatever materials are available”.

DAVID: I see whole organisms responding to new conditions. (dhw’s bold)

dhw: Of course. So do I. And whole organisms are composed of cells, and we know that the cells change in response to new conditions. But you believe they only do so when God preprogrammes them or fiddles with them or gives them lessons.

DAVID: God speciates.

Speciation restructures whole organisms, which are composed of cell communities, in response to new conditions. You agree, but your God preprogrammed every one 3.8 billion years ago (having looked into his crystal ball to foresee every future change in conditions), or he pops in to dabble, though 99.9% of his preprogramming and/or dabbles have nothing to do with his sole purpose, but hey, let’s just call that inefficiency.

Clever corvids

DAVID: Do you think our cells are conscious?

dhw: Yes, in the sense that Shapiro believes they are “cognitive (sentient) entities that act and interact purposefully to ensure survival, growth and proliferation. They possess sensory, communication, information-processing and decision-making capabilities.” These are all attributes of consciousness. But of course that does not mean they have the same DEGREE of consciousness, let alone self-consciousness, that we have. It is our DEGREE of consciousness and self-consciousness that makes us exceptional.

DAVID: Our cells only look conscious.

They look conscious, they act conscious, but you know they ain’t conscious.

Parrot talk

QUOTE: "In the wild, parrots squeak, squawk, whistle and trill to communicate with their flockmates. These highly social birds rely on their complex communication systems to get food and warn of potential dangers, and research even suggests parrots use "signature contact calls" to refer to each other, similar to how humans call each other by name.”

DAVID: […] parrots might beat Corvid smartness. That little brain does a lot.

Most of this fascinating article is devoted to how parrots understand human language. But I find the above quote equally fascinating. ALL our fellow creatures communicate with one another. I just wish we humans could understand their forms of language as well as parrots understand ours. Amazingly, some humans are not even clever enough to realize that squeaks, squawks, whistles etc. also denote the same conscious communication as ours, albeit on a vastly reduced scale. `