New Miscellany: theodicy, climate change, evolution (General)

by dhw, Friday, March 07, 2025, 11:44 (2 days ago) @ David Turell

Back to Fine tuning
New CMB findings

DAVID: a minor asymmetry exists between the two hemispheres of the CMB. This does challenge the standard model. It does not challenge that the universe originated as fine-tuned for life.

dhw: This is unbelievable. Fine-tuning comes at the end of a process, not at the beginning. The universe originated with the basic materials for life, but we know the universe as a whole is not and never has been fine-tuned for life because the only part we know that is fine-tuned for life is Planet Earth.

DAVID: The bold is totally backward. The beginning of the universe's formation is fine-tuned. It is foundational. The evolution of the Earth into a life-friendly place is secondary.

Are you juggling with language again? Fine-tuning for life comes second in the order of creation! “Secondary” means less important. The foundations without the fine-tuning will not produce life, and therefore the foundations have not been fine-tuned for life! You agreed four days ago:

DAVID: [Monday March 3)…] I have accepted the Wilsonian view of fine-tuning in my statement.
dhw: […] since you have now explicitly accepted my argument, then of course we can close the discussion. Thank you.

DAVID: Yes, close.

Having accepted my definition, you now revert to the same ridiculous distortion of language which you started with. Please stop it.

Theodicy

dhw: You simply have no answer to my arguments. You refuse to acknowledge 1) that “proportionality” does not make evil disappear (= head in the sand); 2) that a God who cannot avoid creating evil, and sometimes even tries in vain to prevent it, cannot be labelled omnipotent; 3) that a God who knowingly creates evil in order to ensure that he is genuinely recognized and worshipped can hardly be labelled all-good.

DAVID: Those are your agnostic reasons. You worry about the one percent that is evil and ignore the good.

Your God’s possible nature has nothing to do with agnosticism. Theodicy recognizes the reality of evil, but you think the theodicy problem is solved if you shut your eyes to evil and focus only on the good! Head in sand.

Climate change
Timing a probable glacial period

DAVID: There are physical climate theories that counterintuitively say CO2 will flatten out.
And:
DAVID: The heat is needed! It is what will ward off glaciation is the point!

dhw: So now you have changed your mind and are advocating continuing the practices which are already damaging our environment because although they can only increase the damage, someone prophesies “counterintuitively” that they won’t, and we need to keep burning in order to protect ourselves against the glaciation prophesied to happen in about 11,000 years’ time. And you accuse those who demand a halt to current known damage of panicking!!!

DAVID: Still panicking. Moderate the heat a little and allow the heat to block the glaciation.

You have agreed that current practices must be changed to prevent the escalation of damage already being caused, accepted that the changes must be balanced against the need to avert social and economic disaster, praised USA for reducing carbon emissions, and criticized Brazil, India and China for not doing the same. Please tell me which of your agreements you now disagree with.

Chemical control of ecosystems

DAVID: […]. That some key molecules shape ecosystems is an amazing but a logical discovery.

dhw: Amazing and logical, as this is just one of the ways in which ecosystems have constantly changed throughout the history of life on Earth. For me it only confirms the distinct impression that the history is one of a continuous free-for-all.

DAVID: It is dog-eat-dog with a designed evolution creating humans.

Interesting. Instead of all evolution being geared to us and our food, you now seem to agree that your God might have created a free-for-all, but later intervened with dabbles to create humans. Please confirm.

Nature’s Wonders: Mantis shrimp punch protection

A punch so powerful it must have a protective shield:
https://www.livescience.com/animals/crustaceans/animal-kingdoms-most-powerful-puncher-g...

DAVID: […]. Not by chance. I can't imagine naturally occurring mutations designed this.

I agree. As I see it, the alternatives remain divine design or design through intelligent cell communities (possibly God-designed) developing new weapons, just as we humans have done.

Bone tools from 1.5 million years ago

"[…] The newly identified bone artifacts show that their tool technology was more complex, advanced, and sophisticated than we knew.”

DAVID: the evolving human brain was quite talented and must have been the major driver for new talents to develop.

That has to be the natural process: generations inherit skills, and then develop new skills as the brain responds to conditions by complexifying or, in due course, expanding. Only with sapiens does the brain stop expanding, and complexification takes over. We have discussed this natural progression many times. I find these discoveries fascinating, as it is abundantly clear that our distant ancestors were considerably more intelligent than we used to think. Thank you again for keeping us updated on these discoveries.