New Miscellany (General)

by David Turell , Thursday, February 13, 2025, 17:45 (21 days ago) @ dhw

T-cells and immunity

DAVID: No, the process is identical for each different enemy.

dhw: The process of analysing and deciding how to use new information is the same, but the information is different, which means each new enemy requires new analysis and decision-making. Hence what you call the “adaptability”, which I suggest requires intelligence.

DAVID: Wrong. Recognizing non-self, taking a part of it and adding a killer portion is all automatic.

dhw: So please explain how an all-powerful, all-knowing God can design an automatic system which is so incompetent that its different enemies can kill millions of people before our intelligent scientists are able to figure out what your God’s automatic programme has been unable to cope with? (I’m thinking of diseases such as flu, malaria, AIDS, Covid etc.) See also the next exchange re adaptability.

Same reply to your theodicy question. Proportionality. Almost everyone lives.

dhw: […] So what instructions were given by God 3.8 billion years ago? Please answer.

DAVID: How to make antibodies against so many enemies with one simple system.

dhw: And I suggest the “simple system” is a “mechanism” (perhaps God-given) that gives cells the autonomous ability to process and decide how to use new information (= adaptability). What else could it be if your God’s 3.8-billion-year old “instructions” do not cover every new threat?

DAVID: The system is built to cover all as described above.

dhw: It clearly doesn’t cover all, since we humans have to use all our intelligence to provide ways of dealing with new enemies that are not “covered”. If cellular “adaptability” entailed an autonomous (but limited) intelligence, the failures would make sense: we can say that our human intelligence is less limited than that of cells. But with your system, we can say that human intelligence is greater than that of your God, since we can (sometimes) correct the errors in his inefficient design.

Same reply to your theodicy question. Proportionality. Almost everyone lives.

Fine-tuning

DAVID: Do you fully understand what the CMB tells us? It is the embryo of the universe? All the same with no oddball areas. An embryo can only follow its design. When fine tuning was a hot topic thirty years ago, no expert voiced your contrary point.

dhw: Do you know the meaning of "fine tuning"? Definitions for you: “to adjust precisely so as to bring to the highest level of performance or effectiveness”. (Merriam-Webster) - or. “to make very small changes to something so that it is as good as it can possibly be.” (Oxford) No one can deny that the universe contains all the ingredients necessary for life, and it’s fair enough to point out the “constants” without which life would not be possible. But the presence of the ingredients and of the constants does not in itself create life! You are the first to lay enormous emphasis on the uniqueness of our planet and the unusualness of our galaxy. It is the “adjustments” that make life possible, and so far as we know, ours is the only planet in which all the adjustments have been made. The universe provides the basic elements, but the whole of the universe is NOT fine-tuned to support life. This is perfectly clear from our knowledge of the 5% we know. Ours is the only planet is which all the adjustments have been made. We know nothing about adjustments in the unknown 95% of the universe.

DAVID: For the whole universe to exist all the factors must be fine-tuned, to exquisitely narrow points of accuracy. Earth's life allowing adjustments are a different issue entirely.

dhw: I’m sorry, but the theory of “fine-tuning” does not mean the universe is fine-tuned to be itself, and if it was not itself, it would not exist! The whole theory relates to LIFE, and Earth is the only example we know of in which all the necessary factors have come together (or been adjusted, or “fine-tuned”) in such a way as to produce life. At best, you might argue that our galaxy is “fine-tuned” for life. What evidence is there that the billions of other galaxies extant and extinct are/were also “fine-tuned” for life? Perhaps you will now respond to the points I have raised above.

Apparently you weren't following the discussions thirty years ago. The whole universe exists because of the fine-tuning factors, about 20+ of them. It is all very sophisticated physics. "Universes" by John Leslie will explain it.