New Miscellany 2: evolution, intelligence, eco etc. (General)

by dhw, Tuesday, May 20, 2025, 13:51 (9 hours, 39 minutes ago) @ dhw

Human evolution: HARs

dhw: Do you agree that […] our brain is a development of former brains, and […] it’s not clear why ANY live organ or organism should exist?

DAVID: Yes.

dhw: An important agreement. The evolution of our special brain is no more and no less of a mystery than the existence of life itself.

DAVID: A designer mind explains it.

Agreed. But at the risk of one big yawn, let me repeat that a designer mind creates another insoluble mystery, as described in the final section of this post.
Your acceptance of the fact that we cannot solve these mysteries should make you a little less intolerant of my agnosticism.

Chirality

DAVID: I think most biochemical studies show a designer at work.

dhw: Figures show that at least half the scientists who write these articles would disagree with you. But your mind is only open to the one interpretation.

DAVID: I have decided on faith in God. They differ from me.

I’d noticed. That is my point. Your mind is closed.

New oxygen research

DAVID: […] The study is best understood in the teleology of a designed process planning for future use by newly evolved organisms.

dhw: […] What is the teleology behind the billions of heavenly bodies without oxygen? […] All questions ultimately go back to the unsolvable problem of “first cause”: a sourceless form of almighty consciousness, or a sourceless form of matter and energy forever producing different combinations, just one of which happened to produce Earth and life on Earth.

DAVID: Your faith in combinatorial progress by chance is irrational. […]

dhw: When will you stop pretending that I am an atheist? I have no faith in chance, and I have no faith in a sourceless form of omnipotent, omniscient consciousness. One of these theories must be closer to the truth than the other, but each of them demands a degree of faith which I do not have. That is why I am an agnostic.

DAVID: I understand your unwillingness to take a stance.

Thank you. So please stop pretending that I am an atheist and that this somehow invalidates my criticisms of your absurd theory of evolution.

Early life

DAVID: […] As an aside to dhw note: "In ecosystems today, life is so deeply entwined with itself that very few creatures live directly off Earth's raw materials. That has been the case for a very, very long time." When I have told you the ecosystems are exquisitely entwined this statement proves the point.(dhw's bolds)

dhw: The fact that ecosystems today are deeply entwined is not an issue between us. The issue which you continuously try to avoid is your claim that all ecosystems past and present were specifically designed for the sole purpose of producing and supporting us humans and our food, even though the vast majority of extinct ecosystems had no connection at all with us and our food.

DAVID: You want to lose the past, which is what developed todays ecosystems which support humans.

It is you who want to lose the past, because you have accepted the fact that 99.9% of past species and their ecosystems had no connection with us and our food. Hence your now bolded comment about the ecosystems of today.

dhw: See also your acknowledgement in Part 1 that we have no idea what species the future may produce; therefore it is absurd to claim that the process has ended with us and so we must have been your God’s only purpose for creating life.

DAVID: The future is unknown to us. I have specifically said evolution is over. The Earth has evolved to support us. So I see us as the purposeful endpoint.

Since the future is unknown to us, it is patently absurd to tell us that evolution is over!!! So much for your proof that we are the purposeful endpoint!

Human evolution: in Indonesia area

QUOTES: Skull fragments and other fossil remains provide a unique picture….

the finds provide a unique image…

until now, fossils had never been found in this area.

"'This makes our discoveries truly unique," says Berghuis.

DAVID: more evidence of how Erectus migrated over Southern Asia.

Yet more new fossils. Until every inch of the Earth has been explored, there will always be new fossils to help fill in the history. Re the quotes: Every find can be called unique in one way or another, even if it’s only in a new location, but I like your comment, which puts it in perspective. I wish researchers wouldn’t constantly tell us how important their work is! Or am I being too cynical?

Astrocytes new found role

DAVID: They were placed there for a reason and now that reason is now understood. From a design standpoint having systems for slower reactions makes perfect sense.

The experiments on fish, mice and fruit flies confirm that all cells in all types of brain will have a function. From a “design standpoint”, this will apply whether the design is carried out directly by your God, or by intelligent cell communities recognizing the need for certain types of reaction. The latter theory does not exclude your God as its designer.