New Miscellany: fine tuning, theodicy, evolution (General)

by David Turell , Thursday, March 13, 2025, 17:43 (20 hours, 3 minutes ago) @ dhw

Fine tuning again

DAVID: The universe had no life until the Earth evolved. All I am pointing out is another Earth-like place can pop up and have life, because of the universe's construction.

dhw: There is no disagreement on this... The entire universe is NOT environmentally and biochemically fine-tuned for life to appear. Therefore the entire universe is not fine-tuned for life to appear.

Yes. The entire universe is biochemically fine-tuned for life to appear. Environmental issues are secondary.

Theodicy

DAVID: I'm not ignorant in accepting God's works with evil attached.

dhw: Acceptance has nothing to do with theodicy, which is the quest for an explanation. If you can’t explain why an all-good, all-powerful God creates evil, or is powerless to prevent it, then just admit that it makes no sense to you, instead of lurching from one digression (e.g. “proportionality”) or contradiction (he’s all-powerful but powerless) to another?

The 'digressions' are the answers.

Evolution

dhw: We’re not talking about "how" but about "if". YOU know what you mean by enjoy, interest, love etc., and the only question is IF he does or doesn’t enjoy, have interest, love etc. There is no “allegory”, and it’s you who have proposed all of these as possible motives for his creation of life and us, so please stop pretending that your own proposals don’t “humanize” him. In any case, why should you assume that your God would NOT endow his creations with some of his own thought patterns and emotions?

What words/concepts mean to God MAY NOT be the same as the meanings to us in discussions.

Nature’s Wonders: octopus rape

QUOTE: "The poison, tetrodotoxin, the same poison used by pufferfish, paralyzed the female while the male copulated with her. His efforts continued until the female began to recover. The poison used by the male was made by bacteria that lived in its body.

DAVID: I guess it is better than being eaten, although a participating partner makes it all more enjoyable.

dhw: Great comment! Fascinating procedure. We have had countless proofs of bacterial intelligence and of symbiosis. I find it hard to imagine that your God would have instructed the female to eat the male and would also have instructed the male to paralyze the female in its own defence. The alternative: intelligent cell communities and intelligent bacteria working together to ensure their survival in the dog-eat-dog, octopus-eat-octopus free-for-all of evolution’s history.

DAVID: The symbiosis is not surprising.

dhw: Of course not. Don’t you agree, though, that it demonstrates intelligent cooperation between bacteria and the cell communities of the octopus? Or do you think your God gave different instructions to the female's and the male's bacteria and cell communities?

Same instructions.