Immunity system complexity (Introduction)

by dhw, Tuesday, June 23, 2020, 13:16 (1400 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Still struggling for cell intelligence. All the immunity cells have standardized built-in reactions to invaders. The antibodies produced are from reactions to antigens (specific molecules) on the surface of the infective organism. The fact that they are standardized means the odd hard-to-control diseases I have mentioned exist.

dhw: How can they be standardized when there is a brand new invader? Each new invader requires new antibodies, and every antibody constitutes a new volume in the accumulative library of remembered answers. […]

DAVID: There are no new-type responses to new invaders. Response methods are all the same but for something new as a disease causer a new antibody is produced. And the library grows.

You have virtually repeated my own words. We are in agreement.

dhw: Confirmation that you are not naturally immune to a disease until you have had it – i.e. the library is an on-going accumulation of volumes/answers/instructions.

DAVID: Yes, to 'volumes, answers'. The cells instructions as to how to respond are fixed and do not change.

dhw: I still don’t know what “instructions” you are referring to. Do you simply mean the cells must respond to the new invader by finding means of killing it? The means are certainly NOT fixed, since each new invader demands a new response - and sometimes the cells are unable to come up with the goods.

DAVID: A new response does not mean a new method of response. Antibodies always form in the same way by taking notice of a protein or series of proteins on the invader's surface and forming a killer antibody to neutralize it.

And so the “instructions” are to kill or neutralize the invader with antibodies. However, each response, i.e. each new antibody, has to be new. We are in agreement.

DAVID: […] Our antibody mechanism needs help and becomes ready for the bug as the vaccine allows a library addition before the bug ever attacks.

And so “the immune system itself does NOT “cover all and every infection”, and “that is why outside intervention is necessary in the form of drugs” (dhw, Sunday June 21) We are in agreement.

DAVID: As for your question bolded above, the cells contain the instructional information for their standardized responses, and add new instructional information for the newly developed antibody response to their ever expanding library of responses. All by original design of the cells. Remember the newborn comes with a blank library and builds it over a lifetime.

Yes indeed, the cells’ standard response to a new disease is to try and kill or neutralize the cause, and it does so by developing new antibodies and hence an ongoing library of responses. Unfortunately, they do not always succeed. Thank you for confirming my two bolds: 1) the immune system has had to come up with new answers every time, thus building its library of responses, and 2) the immune system does NOT contain instructions on how to counter all diseases. We appear to be in complete agreement.