Immunity system complexity: T cells identify self, non- self (Introduction)

by David Turell , Sunday, June 09, 2019, 18:48 (1782 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: Many scientists, however, believe that cellular behaviour, manifested by automatic reactions, is directed by a form of autonomous intelligence. And so every time you insert the word “automatic” to indicate absence of intelligence, you will oblige me to point out that this is your subjective belief, which conflicts with the subjective beliefs of many of your fellow scientists.

DAVID: Current conclusions on all sides are all subjective. The underlying controlling mechanism is not yet known. Therefore, 'a form of autonomous intelligence' can be just that or automatically programmed responses. Take your choice. I have mine and you quote scientists who have subjectively disagreed with me. Subjective is subjective. No proof exists now.

dhw: Thank you for again repeating my own argument (bolded). Since no proof exists either way, I suggest that one should keep an open mind. I offer hypotheses. You offer rigidly fixed beliefs.

Yes, I have rigid beliefs. You are the one floating around with no beliefs.

Under "Plant root growth":

QUOTE: "the researchers were able to show that BSK3, a brassinosteroid signaling kinase, is modulating the extent of root elongation under low nitrogen." (David’s bold)

QUOTE: "As sessile organisms, plants rely on their ability to adapt the development and growth of their roots in response to changing nutrient conditions. One such response, known to be displayed by plants grown in low nitrogen conditions, is the elongation of primary and lateral roots to explore the surrounding soil. (dhw’s bold)

DAVID: This finding presents the usual problem for Darwin-style evolutionary theory. The bolded molecule is a giant enzyme, with exact structure to provide the necessary result in action. Of all the possible structures to chose from, how did unguided evolution find such a molecule? Since this is an issue of survival, this mechanism had to be part of the original design of the plant.

dhw: The passage I have quoted and bolded makes it perfectly clear that as conditions change, plants modify themselves in order to cope with new conditions. Some scientists would argue that this denotes a particular form of intelligence, and yes indeed, I would suggest that the intelligence (perhaps God-given) but not the evolutionary developments themselves would have been part of the original design. Your own bold identifies the material means by which plants make the necessary adjustments.

Again your discussion avoids the main point. It the plants controlled their own modification, how did they find the necessary giant protein molecule? The only ability seen in cells is the ability to respond to specific stimuli or to produce required proteins in a seemingly intelligent way.