Immunity system complexity: how T cells are triggered (Introduction)

by David Turell , Monday, April 15, 2019, 15:26 (1837 days ago) @ dhw
edited by David Turell, Monday, April 15, 2019, 15:40

DAVID: We both can only propose and guess, me from my automaticity viewpoint and you from a mysterious intelligence that somehow popped up from nowhere.

dhw: You are refusing to consider the implications of your two methods of creating automaticity: your God’s 3.8-billion-year-old computer programme or personal dabbling (as described above) for every single bacterial action throughout life’s history. This stretches my credulity way beyond its limits. The source of my “mysterious” and still hypothetical cellular intelligence is unknown, and so I have always allowed for it to be your God, who himself is a mysterious intelligence that somehow popped up from nowhere or, even more mysteriously, has simply been there for ever and ever.

DAVID: I find your credulity very limited: you don't trust chance to achieve our reality and recognize the importance of design, but then deny the need for a designer! The only choices are chance or design. Since you cannot find a third way, you then sweetly refer to 'my God' to make yourself appear neutral in our discussions. It is patently obvious that 'mind' is required to explain this reality. The chasm awaits!

dhw: We are not discussing whether God exists or not. We are discussing the feasibility of your hypothesis concerning the workings of evolution, and in particular your rigid belief in cellular automaticity. My credulity is stretched by the idea that your God either preprogrammed or dabbled every single bacterial action throughout history. I find it far more believable that he would have given them the means to decide on their own actions. As far as God’s existence is concerned, you know perfectly well that while accepting your argument for design and a designer, I still find it impossible to replace one mystery with another. A hidden, unknowable, universal mind that never came from anywhere but has always been there is as difficult for me to believe in as it is to believe in chance as the creator of all life’s complexities. Yes, I am neutral. Now please tell us: do you really believe that your God preprogrammed or dabbled every single bacterial action throughout the history of life?

You brought up the stretch in your credulity, as to whether God exists. So He is always an issue. My point is simpler than your question. I believe God is in charge of evolution and guides its development to achieve His goals. Pre-programming and dabbling are my suggestions as to how it might be accomplished. They are not at the level of belief.