Immunity system complexity: how T cells are triggered (Introduction)

by dhw, Wednesday, April 10, 2019, 13:13 (1842 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Just because bacteria live together, doesn't mean they cooperate. However there are special forms of amoeba that show great cooperation. It is a step up in evolution.

dhw: So different individual cells form a community (e.g. a biofilm), and we know that they communicate, and we know that they can play different roles within that community which can then perform feats which the individual bacterium cannot perform on its own, but according to you that doesn’t mean they cooperate.

DAVID: We know different bacteria in a biofilm do different functions based on their placement, but that is probably fully automatic, not bacterial knowing choice.

If they perform different functions within their community, and we know they communicate, how can you say they don't cooperate? You are now merely repeating your belief that their cooperation and communication were "probably" preprogrammed 3.8 billion years ago.

DAVID: We're back to the same argument about the possible presence of purpose and design.

dhw: Of course there is purpose and design: in my hypothesis, the purpose is to adapt to or exploit new conditions in order to improve chances of survival, and the design is done by the cells/cell communities themselves with their possibly God-given intelligence. The question of your God’s purpose in setting it all up continues to be debated under “Big brain evolution”.

DAVID: I can accept God-given instructions, as usual.

dhw: You can believe in them if you wish, but that does not alter the fact that my hypothesis provides purpose and design.

DAVID: Once again you have cells designing with purpose with no evidence of how they might have thought.

As usual you try to switch the argument. First it’s purpose and design, and when I answer that, you resort to the fact that we don’t know the source of thought. (See below.)

DAVID: [..] You can postulate cell intelligence, but can't tell me where it came from. Intelligence requires Thinking and a mind.

dhw: Nobody can tell us where life came from, and no believer can tell us where his God came from. That is why we theorize. The fact that you believe God exists, and that he provided the first cells with programmes for every single undabbled life form, econiche etc. does not in any way invalidate the postulation of cellular intelligence. I agree that intelligence requires a form of thinking, but that does not mean the cell has to have a brain like ours.

DAVID: Please tell us which organelle in a cell can possibly plan with thought?

If we knew that, there would be no debate. Please tell us which organelle in a cell contains the 3.8-billion-year-old computer programme for every single action that it will ever perform.