Concepts of God: God does not exist in time (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Friday, March 05, 2021, 11:34 (1358 days ago) @ David Turell

DAVID: Again the difference between us is our individual perceptions of God. God knew exactly what He was producing when humans arrived as I view Him. You have again described Him as learning, a human characteristic.

dhw: This exchange arose because you said your God was unchanging, and I have challenged your definitive statement. You are simply answering with another definitive statement, as if you knew God personally (whereas I offer alternative possibilities – not rigid beliefs.) And the fact that learning is a human characteristic ties in with your agreement that he and we may have thought patterns etc. in common, though you keep trying to forget it.

DAVID: I have granted you only logical thought. Stop backpedaling.

DAVID: (Saturday 6 February) All we can be sure of is logic on his part. His thought patterns and emotions are possibly similar, but that possibility cannot be used to give him human desires.

Apart from your censorship of what sort of thought patterns and emotions you will allow him to have, you agreed that similar thought patterns etc. are possible. And I still don’t know what gives you the authority to state that your God is unchanging and cannot learn. Do please tell us the source of your inside information.

DAVID: God is timeless (eternal) but despite that, He can and does work in our time in our universe which is time as you define it. (dhw’s bold)

dhw: Thank you. Let’s summarize our findings: God, if he exists, is eternal. He created the universe and life in a sequence of causes and effects continuing through the sequence of past, present and future that we call time. We do not know what he might have done before he created the universe, but since there must have been a “before” if he is eternal, he exists in time (contrary to the heading of this thread), although his time has no beginning and no end. We appear to be in total agreement, though whether this leaves us any the wiser I leave you to judge.

DAVID: As usual, you slip into human thinking about God. We view His possible previous events as indicating 'time', but it is OUR view, not His. Spacetime is a property of this universe, not outside of it, where is where I view God as existing.

How on earth do you expect to know God’s view? Of course these are our views. We have no idea if there is an “outside” of our universe, but you have just stated that “He can and does work in our time in our universe which is time as you define it.” If he works inside our time and our universe” (the only universe we know of), it is patently absurd to tell us that he does not exist in our time and universe! And I still haven’t a clue what is the point of this discussion.