Concepts of God: God does not exist in time (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by David Turell , Tuesday, March 02, 2021, 15:14 (1150 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: All you have done is discuss the human concept of time and tried to apply that to God. God is unchanging all through eternity, and not being different ever He is timeless.

dhw: Why do you refuse to define time and timeless? And unchanging in what way? For instance, do you think he is incapable of learning? You believe he is interested in us, so does that mean he watches us but his mind remains a total blank?

I refuse nothing. You don't like my answers. God works in human time. Is that difficult to understand? Your questions do not fit the quality of this discussion. God doesn't need to learn. His mind is so much more than ours.

DAVID: What you have described are things that God does for us or for evolution in our time. Obviously God recognizes the passage of our time as He performs activity in that time.

dhw; And there you have the nub of the matter. We have no idea what your God got up to before the Big Bang (if it happened), but he did not “recognize” the passage of our time – according to you he created it! So it's HIS time. And he used it. And if he is still alive, he exists in it.

No. He works His creations in our time, but outside our time He is timeless. The time He created is for us, not for him.

DAVID: What you do not seem to understand is the separation. Timeless God can enter our time and remain timeless as He manipulates within our time. It is not pointless trying to make you understand Feser's concepts.

dhw: Again, what do you mean by “timeless”? I have no problem accepting the idea that he is eternal, but what do you mean by he “entered our time”, when you believe that he himself began the sequences of cause and effect, past, present and future, evolution etc. If by “timeless” you mean that he has always been one vast blob of pure energy, that’s fine with me, but it doesn’t mean that his work does (did) not depend on cause and effect, before and after. And if by timeless you simply mean “eternal”, then all you are saying is that your eternal God has always been there in HIS past and will always be there in HIS future. This whole discussion is meaningless unless you define your terms! Why are you so reluctant to do so? And what exactly is the point that you are trying to make?

God created our time and entered it for His creations of our reality. Outside the universe there is no time and God is there, timeless. Pure panentheism. To answer your question, to explain to you God's relationship to 'time' after you questioned Feser.