Concepts of God: proof of God by St. Thomas' Fifth Way (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by David Turell , Friday, November 22, 2019, 22:51 (1829 days ago) @ dhw

DAVID: Yes life exists, and our knowledge of how cells operate is that it is so complex no one has any concept of how it originated as you clearly state. Why do you turn to psychokinetics?

dhw: Psychokinesis is the ability of the mind to move or change objects without physical means. How else could “pure energy” dabble with existing materials?

DAVID: I meant panpsychism. And my comment applies. The panpsychism theory is my theory that God's consciousness runs the universe in lite form, to avoid God.

Panpsychism is: "The theory that all nature is psychical or has a psychical aspect; the theory that every particle of matter has a psychical character or aspect.” How does God running the universe “in lite form” avoid God? And what is “lite” about it? If you think God’s consciousness is everywhere, you are a panpsychist! But equally you can believe that all things have their own individual “psyche”, regardless of whether God exists or not. That is why panpsychism can be theistic or atheistic.

DAVID: I actually am a panenpsychist in belief, God within and without the universe.

dhw: That still means God’s consciousness is everywhere. Once more: what is your point? We were discussing St Thomas’s attempt to prove God’s existence and also to discredit deism. The argument went that “he is at work ceaselessly and everywhere” and the “proof of his existence is […] in every raindrop and in every blown grain of dust”. The design may be seen as proof of God’s existence, but that does not “rule out the God of deism”. I also pointed out that the concept of God outlined here could be pure pantheism, but Nature does not have to be a single, thinking mind, and the concept of universal consciousness is a form of panpsychism, which can be theistic or atheistic. Do you agree with this critique or not?

Yours is a good summary of the issues.