Concepts of God (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Thursday, April 14, 2016, 16:11 (3144 days ago) @ BBella

Dhw: It is a fact that different people have had different experiences of an apparent afterlife, and so it is a fact that diversity is a feature of the hypothesis. But I don't see how you can call it a “scientific” fact. 
BBELLA: Ok, so better said: It is an indisputable fact that millions of people have differing experiences of the afterlife. Not scientific fact - just an indisputable fact.-Thank you. Please forgive my pedantry, but there are too many misunderstandings caused by nuances of language, and in this particular case I feel very strongly that we should not try to conform to the current trend of elevating “science” to the status of the sole adjudicator of what might or might not be the truth.
 
BBELLA: Maybe, between the separate i-dentities and the ONE I-dentiy of God, is a multitude of levels of states of being that we humans can experience (on some level) while here. This could account for our experiences that seem so different from each others experiences, though sometimes they seem similar…
Dhw: …I'm not sure what is implied by “levels of states of being”. 
BBELLA: I was thinking how just on our earth, different entities experience different levels of states of being. From basic bacteria to humanity. All beings experiencing being in a different way. Maybe the afterlife could be in someway similar. Or, differing levels of existence to be experienced in the in-between by each being differently. By the differing accounts there are so many similarities and then many differences, so that alone says the explanation of levels makes sense as a possibility.-Thank you. I agree that different beings experience being in different ways. That may even apply to small organisms as well as large organisms. And for those who believe in reincarnation (the "heavier state"), as you mention below, there is even the possibility of metempsychosis - living again in another form. I vaguely remember asking you what form you would like to come back in if this is an option, but I can't remember the answer!-Dhw: However, “states of being” seems to indicate some kind of spiritual hierarchy that culminates in God. Perhaps you could explain this in terms of our i-dentity?
BBELLA: I dont know about "spiritual hierarchy". Maybe it's more like when a being is on the matter plane of existence (on earth), a being is cloaked within a heavier level or state of existence. Maybe in the afterlife a being can move to a multitude of levels, most would probably be a less dense state of being - so closer to the ONEness of God. Maybe some move to a denser level. Maybe one could move to a state of afterlife where we choose to move toward the ONEness or back to the heavier state of being of earth etc. Of course, conjecture. I'm just using the small amount of facts I know about what I've heard about the afterlife and trying to make some sense of the diverse accounts and what that might mean - other than the easy answer - hallucinations. 
DAVID: I can state categorically that they are not hallucinations. No study by any of the authors describes them that way. Having dealt with hallucinatory patients, their thoughts and what they imagine is totally disorganized, and the NDE stories I've heard from patients are quite reasonable and organized.-I think this is a very important point, and I would not limit it to NDEs. Of course there are undoubtedly many psychic experiences that are fake, or hallucinatory, or just plain misinterpretations of events that do have an everyday explanation. But there are far too many instances - I can think of several even within my own family circle of pretty sceptical folk - that simply cannot be explained or dismissed in such a manner.
 
Dhw: …whether the i-dentity actually lives on after the death of the body (not just the brain) is a question I simply don't feel able to answer.
BBELLA: Of course. But for millions that have experienced the afterlife (however different their experiences) and for those who have had experiences that gave them insight to an afterlife or something more than what we see, their experiences shouldn't be discounted (which you aren't) but should be considered as fact and way past the half way mark on the scale of possibility especially when discussing concepts of God.-No, I certainly do not discount these experiences. But of course one has to distinguish between the facts and people's interpretations of the facts, and since you rightly point out that different people have all kinds of different experiences, we do perhaps come back to solipsism. A Christian's experience of an afterlife may be very different from that of a Hindu, a Muslim, a Buddhist, or a Seventh Day Adventist. And one must also bear in mind that some of these experiences are extremely unpleasant - it's not all peace and love. Ah well, I look forward to finding out what sort of experience awaits an agnostic. But I may never know!