Concepts of God (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Thursday, April 21, 2016, 13:31 (821 days ago) @ David Turell

Dhw: My made-up explanation, then, is that ultimately all is energy, and reality is whatever the individual thinks it is. But of course this particular individual at this particular time doesn't even know what he thinks reality is!
BBELLA: Wow! Beautiful! I am near speechless! Especially since what you express is so very near (you filled in the cracks for me) what I've already come to conclude (with an open-ended conclusion) for myself - if, as per the condition, what many people experience is in fact reality. But I could have never expressed it so well! Yes, I know it is all conjecture - but still, I am blown away.
Maybe there is already a similar belief out there like this - if so, I may have missed it, or have I?

Thank you. I'm flattered! Many of the ideas ARE yours. If (“as per the condition”) we accept the reality of psychic experiences, there has to be a form of identity/consciousness that transcends the material world as we know it. And since people experience different things, there has to be an all-important degree of subjectivity underlying their experiences - just as there is here on Earth. The afterlife I described came directly from you! Otherwise, I don't think it would have occurred to me that one might choose what to do next. But it does make sense as a way of breaking up (or ending) a personal eternity.

It would make for a revealing exercise if we extended your challenge, and asked those who have reached a conclusion to write a defence of what they disbelieve: i.e. atheists to defend theism and theists to defend atheism. Any takers?

DAVID: I've followed the discussion. It is interesting that dhw can imagine pure free floating energy when generally he argues against the concept.

An excellent point, though you must remember that I was asked to provide an explanation to encompass the (hypothetical) reality of ALL psychic experiences. I started out from my existence as a human being, which would have to mean a mixture of material and immaterial. The reincarnation aspect of my “explanation” allows for me to have existed in immaterial form before my birth as the present me. But how far back does the pre-“me” go? According to current scientific calculations, at most about 3.8 billion years. My “lives” could not have begun before life began! So there I am, stuck with the usual chicken and egg dilemma - in this case, which came first: the bacterium me or the intelligence me? (A question specially for you, David!";-)" ) Could the one have come into existence without the other? You are right, though, my “explanation” of an afterlife and reincarnation demands that ultimately matter becomes energy, which can go on existing independently of matter. That does not mean that life, identities and consciousness existed before matter. What happened before the universe began remains as unknown as what will happen after the universe ends, but that was not part of BBella's challenge!


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