Concepts of God (The nature of a \'Creator\')

by dhw, Sunday, April 24, 2016, 13:22 (3134 days ago) @ BBella

Dhw: So there I am, stuck with the usual chicken and egg dilemma - in this case, which came first: the bacterium me or the intelligence me? (A question specially for you, David! ) Could the one have come into existence without the other? 
“Endless”, looking forward. My attitude is hardening. The challenge could only relate to life after the beginning of life on Earth, unless you can refer me to psychic experiences of lives before then. Phew! As for cracks…well, when Planet Earth dies, reincarnation may have to come to an end, which could be a problem for our eastern friends if they haven't yet reached closure of the recycling process. But maybe we'll have found another habitable planet by then. And when the universe dies…? Well, I'm not going to lose any sleep over that particular crack.-DAVID: As you know, I think there is a definite break in the continuum of evolution when human consciousness appeared. Bacterium cellular you is still present in your body, the part of which runs on autopilot, that is, all but three pounds of brain. As for reincarnation, if it exists, it is a property of human consciousness, and certainly not a part of an animal's conscious state.-Please remember that I have been asked to provide an explanation to cover all psychic experiences, based on the premise that they are real. There are humans who genuinely believe they have lived before as animals (see BBella below). But I think I can safely state that we do not know of any animals that claim to have lived before as humans!
 
BBELLA: Bringing together the two constructs does make perfect sense (within this challenge): an ENDLESS eternal existence and a timed existence within material life that always has an ending. Any cracks come to mind we can fill while we are at it?

Dhw: “Endless”, looking forward. My attitude is hardening. The challenge could only relate to life after the beginning of life on Earth, unless you can refer me to psychic experiences of lives before then. -BBELLA: I personally have read of supernatural experiences of lives as other beings (animal, humanoid, alienlike, etc) on earth and in other places, dimensions, etc as well as accounts of NDE that illuminated these ideas. But all those experiences fit neatly under your (my?) original explanation. None that I remember were accounts given in particular before earth time.-I have also read of such experiences.
 
dhw: Phew! As for cracks…well, when Planet Earth dies, reincarnation may have to come to an end, which could be a problem for our eastern friends if they haven't yet reached closure of the recycling process. 
BBELLA: Unless...planet earth will not die until all purposes for it's existence have been exhausted.-That would mean completion of “samsara” (the cycle of birth and death) for those who believe in it. I'm not sure that Planet Earth or even the human race will be able to organize things so considerately! A supreme, all-powerful God could do it, but most of our Buddhist friends don't include such a God in their psychic experiences.-Dhw: But maybe we'll have found another habitable planet by then. And when the universe dies…? Well, I'm not going to lose any sleep over that particular crack.
BBELLA: If we are eternal, immaterial beings in the first place - the comings and goings of our universe may be nothing more than just another curtain closing at the end of a great play.-But reincarnation must come to an end. I'm afraid it's still a crack, unless believers have also experienced bodily life in other universes…-ROM: If we are eternal beings then we have no recollection in the first place.
-Quite right, but BBella's challenge is to find an explanation for all psychic experiences, on the premise that they are “real” and not hallucinatory, and so we only need to explain what HAS been “remembered” (e.g. Rabbi Robert the rabbit, or Guru Gary the gorilla).