Consciousness: Dennett says it is an illusion (General)

by dhw, Wednesday, October 30, 2019, 11:28 (1634 days ago) @ David Turell

QUOTE: As a mathematical description of solar cells and digital circuits, quantum mechanics works just fine. But if one wants to apply the materialist position to a concept as subtle and profound as consciousness, something more must clearly be asked for.

DAVID: If God created the universe from a substrate of quantum mechanics, consciousness may have a quantum basis.

dhw: And according to the above quote (bolded) that means it has a MATERIAL basis, the exact opposite of your beliefs.

DAVID: I'm thinking of quantum pure energy particles. Everything is material at the basis of the universe.

I find this confusing. Is there such a thing as “pure energy particles”? And if everything is material at the basis of the universe, then the basis of consciousness must be material.

Under “Far out cosmology“
DAVID: Note that quantum mechanics are at the basis of this early universe research. It supports my statements that this universe is based on quantum particles.

And quantum particles are material, which means that the basis of everything in the universe is material, and that must include consciousness.

QUOTE: “We live in a very special place,” he said." (David’s bold)
DAVID: Our unusual status is noted in the bolded statement. All indications of design.

When you say “our”, I presume you mean Planet Earth, since “we” humans are not a very special place. Just making sure!

DAVID: How do you explain a universe from nothing? What caused it? What is your First Cause?

dhw: I have told you over and over again! The alternative to your immaterial, sourceless, superconscious mind which has been there for ever and ever is a mindless universe of constantly changing matter and energy which has been there for ever and ever, creating an infinity of combinations, and maybe a big bang, and then the combination which eventually led to the beginnings of life and consciousness. No more and no less feasible than your own First Cause.

DAVID: In that case we are here totally by the luck of the mindless process. What odds are those?

In an eternal material universe with an infinite number of possible material combinations, there are no “odds”. Sooner or later anything should be possible. But I still find it just as hard to believe as an unknown, superconscious mind simply being there for ever and ever. Funny, you never seem to challenge that equally inexplicable hypothesis!