Consciousness: not explained by panpsychism (General)

by David Turell , Saturday, November 03, 2018, 18:22 (2210 days ago) @ dhw

dhw: There is no logic in the argument that formless energy can BE conscious but cannot BECOME conscious.

DAVID: The concept is that one very special form of energy exists, like no other energy. God is not the same energy as all the other energy in the universe we know about. You keep forgetting that difference.

dhw: I’m reminded of Russell’s invisible teapot orbiting the sun. We can’t see it, but it must be there because you say it is. Anyway, you now propose a form of formless energy that CAN’T become conscious, and a different form of formless energy which IS conscious. Well, the concept I’ve proposed is a form of formless energy which CAN become conscious. Why is your hypothesis more logical than mine?

DAVID: The difference is the purposeful drive of first cause. Free-floating energy is just that, free of anything except its existence.

dhw: Fuzzier and fuzzier. Why is it more logical that first cause energy can possess purposeful consciousness than that first cause energy can develop purposeful consciousness?

DAVID: We cannot explain consciousness, yet it can create itself! Talk about fuzzy.

dhw: You still don’t understand the nature of agnosticism. BOTH explanations are fuzzy. That’s why I do not believe or disbelieve either. However, you believe in one of the fuzzy explanations, and dismiss the other because it’s fuzzy.

I fully understand the nature of agnosticism. Proof is required, but as courses in logic tell us, logic can lead to conclusions which are reasonable. First, research shows us just how very complex life's processes are. You have admitted they show design. Second, in human experience, complex design requires advanced thinking, which can only come from a working mind that can foresee the needs of the future the design is aimed at. Thirdly, the formless energy we find is not conscious, nor are aware of any way it can create its own consciousness. Therefore a pre-existing designing mind is required. Further logic not necessary.