Consciousness: Dennett says it is an illusion (General)

by David Turell , Saturday, October 26, 2019, 15:24 (1853 days ago) @ dhw

QUOTE: (UNDER “CONSCIOUSNESS AND SELF-AWARENESS”) "Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Nonhuman animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.But being conscious of one’s body does not mean that an animal also has a capacity for introspection – a key part of being self-aware. While consciousness is being aware of one’s body, self-awareness takes the sensation one step further – you recognise that you are aware of your awareness. (David: my bold which entirely fits my thoughts)

dhw: It does not “entirely fit your thoughts”! Inexplicably, you attempt to distinguish between being conscious and having consciousness, and you argue that human self-awareness makes our consciousness different in kind and not in degree. “One step further” = an advanced degree of consciousness, and according to this article, there are even experts in the field who believe that some animals have taken that step, though of course their degree of consciousness still does not extend anywhere near to the extent of our own.

dhw: You have not commented on this, and so may I assume you agree?

DAVID: Our special degree of consciousness does not exist in any other organism. It is neurological substrates which in humans receives their own special form of consciousness.

Thank you for at last agreeing that we have a special degree of consciousness. Whether the brain is the receiver or the generator of consciousness we do not know - hence the dichotomy between materialism and dualism.

QUOTE: Yet comparative cognition scientists largely agree that most animals are conscious and thinking beings, capable of taking in information, making decisions based on this, and then acting on it. It’s simply that next step – the ability to think about their own thoughts – that remains elusive, something we have not yet been able to capture or measure. (dhw’s bold)

dhw: A good summary. Most scientists agree that our fellow animals are conscious, but whether they have a degree of self-awareness remains open to question. No mention here of your theory that your God preprogrammed or dabbled all the different lifestyles and natural wonders that are the products of animal consciousness.

DAVID: Why should they? It's my theory to explain God's role. They are not discussing God.

dhw; I thought perhaps you would acknowledge that the article as bolded supports my own view of autonomous intelligence and directly contradicts your theory that all the lifestyles and natural wonders you have listed over the years are preprogrammed or dabbled by your God.

DAVID: I will not change from my point that most animals have automatic responses. All cells do.

dhw: All organisms including humans have automatic responses. Many experts in the field, however, believe that all organisms, including cells, also have the autonomous ability to take in information, make decisions based on this, and then act on it. But I know you have a fixed belief that your God preprogrammed all their undabbled decisions and actions 3.8 billion years ago in the very first cells.

You force me to repeat my mantra: from the outside of cells one cannot tell primary decision making from automatic programmed responses.