Consciousness: Dennett says it is an illusion (General)

by dhw, Monday, October 14, 2019, 12:46 (1865 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: You continue to argue that although you agree that “yes, humans are conscious like all other animals with a brain”, [other animals] are not conscious, because consciousness means having self-awareness and the ability to conceptualize. No it doesn’t. Self-awareness and conceptualization etc. are attributes of human consciousness, and you are making a mockery of language. […]

DAVID: We are playing word games. The point is you do not recognize Adler's view of the difference and the difference it makes in a view of whether God exists.

Aw shucks, David, you know that is not the point at all! This dispute is not over Adler’s use of human consciousness as evidence that God exists, but over the absurdity of your attempt to distinguish between being conscious and having consciousness and over the incongruities created by your anthropocentric interpretation of God’s mind and the process of evolution.

dhw: […] we are now discussing Egnor’s question: “..if consciousness is non-physical, how could it evolve? Darwinian natural selection can only act on a physical attribute”.

dhw: Once more, in answer to Egnor […[ : Nobody knows the origin of consciousness and there are disagreements as to its source (materialism = the source is the material brain, which evolved; David’s form of dualism = the source is God, who didn’t evolve). Ants are conscious but do not have all the attributes of consciousness that humans have. This illustrates the evolution of consciousness from comparatively simple levels to extremely complex. However, these different degrees of consciousness have proved to be aids to survival, in keeping with Darwin’s theory of natural selection.

DAVID: And I will still disagree. As before, I view the brain as having evolved to receive consciousness as separate from Darwin evolution of conscious to consciousness as you believe ….

dhw: What on earth does that mean? Back you go to the absurdity of evolving from the adjective to the noun!

DAVID: Simple, I believe the brain evolved to the point of being capable of receiving consciousness. Consciousness did not evolve from being conscious.
And:
DAVID: The Conscious state did not evolve into consciousness. That is pure materialism

Materialism claims that the brain is the source of consciousness. I don’t know of anyone on this planet who claims that being conscious evolved into consciousness. Consciousness IS the state of being conscious, so of course it didn’t evolve from itself! More silly word games. Once more: your belief that the brain is a receiver of consciousness is covered by dualism. That makes no difference to what to me is the obvious fact that whatever the origin and source of consciousness, once it existed it evolved – just like physical organisms – from comparatively simple beginnings to its current complexities. Do you disagree? Thank you again for conceding that consciousness is an aid to survival, in keeping with Darwinian natural selection and in opposition to Egnor.