Consciousness: hard problem not solvable? (General)

by dhw, Monday, September 16, 2019, 10:26 (1682 days ago) @ David Turell

QUOTE: "If our experience of action doesn’t really affect what we do in the moment, then what is it for? Why have it? Contrary to what many people believe, I think agency is only relevant to what happens after we act – when we try to justify and explain ourselves to each other." (DAVID’S bold)

DAVID’s comment: Libet did not interpret correctly. The bold considers agency a feeling after we act. That sounds correct to me.

dhw: Perhaps you understand all this better than I do. “Feeling of agency” presumably means the feeling that we are the “agents” responsible for our actions. If not, what exactly does it mean?

DAVID: That is his meaning as I read it.

I’m glad we agree.

dhw: Once again, we are confronted with the mystery of consciousness. Is he saying that when we need to make a decision, we do not consciously weigh up the pros and cons offered by the information at our disposal?

DAVID: Again I read it as acknowledging that we do weight pros and cons before choosing.

But he says “agency” – the feeling that we are the agents responsible for our actions – only begins AFTER our actions!

dhw: If so, I completely disagree, and I’m surprised that you endorse the bold. That doesn’t mean I am championing free will, because this depends on one’s view of the influences that cause us to process the information in a particular way. But perhaps I've missed his point?

DAVID: As I read it I've accepted his view.

Then you agree with him that we only feel responsible AFTER we act, and therefore the decision-making itself is not our responsibility! I thought you believed that we did have free will, i.e. that we are consciously in charge of our own decision-making BEFORE we act.