Consciousness: Egnor on dualism: another example (General)

by dhw, Monday, August 13, 2018, 08:52 (2293 days ago) @ David Turell

dhw: Your concept of soul varies from one post to another, as does your concept of what the soul actually does. You say it is a piece of your God’s consciousness but is not conscious until it is linked to the brain (except when there is no brain); it is a quantum copy of “you” (but since “you” are your soul and body/brain, that means the soul is a quantum copy of a quantum copy plus your body/brain); it initiates thought but the brain is the source of thought; it initiates incomprehensible thought which is translated into electric brain waves which it then translates into comprehensible thought ….And now the focus is on electricity. You ignore the point I made above, with examples, that either the electricity is the producer of thought (materialism) or the product of thought (dualism). And finally you ignore the definition of soul I keep proposing: if dualism is correct, we consist of a material self (body/brain) and an immaterial self (the soul) which comprises all the immaterial aspects of the self such as consciousness, the ability to think, will, emotion, memory etc., and this is what many dualists believe is the self that survives the death of the brain.

DAVID: As you accuse me of confusing thoughts, your religious adherence to what many dualists think dosn't advance the discussion. I've told you I don't follow any theories but my own, based on what we know happens materially.

I have reproduced some of your multiple, ever changing theories above, and you do not advance the discussion by ignoring all the contradictions they contain. They arise out of your attempt to reconcile your belief that the soul is a piece of your God’s immaterial consciousness with your knowledge of what happens materially.

dhw: […] you still haven’t explained why your soul, your piece of God’s consciousness, which can think meaningful thoughts when the brain is dead, can’t think meaningful thoughts when it is encased in its material body/brain. It is no answer to say it can’t think meaningful thoughts because it uses the brain.

DAVID: But that is my position. It thinks meaningful thoughts because it uses the brain as I do.

As you keep agreeing, the soul IS you. So apparently the soul can’t think meaningful thoughts because your soul uses your brain as your soul does. But you don’t find this confusing.

(dhw’s bold:)
1) DAVID: A changed brain can change thought expression by altering the thought producing electric impulses.
And:
2) DAVID: Any attempt at thought produces electricity, an obvious well-recognized scientific finding.

dhw: The process of thought producing electricity is what I described with the example of the illiterate women, as evidence for dualism. But above you said it was the electric impulses that produce thought, the direct opposite, which = materialism.

DAVID: The electricity represents the production of thought by the brain, driving by an initiation from me/soul.

What does all this mean? Apparently now the soul tells the brain to produce a thought, but it hasn’t a clue what the thought is supposed to be about because the brain has to “produce” it. Either the dualist’s soul, if there is such a thing, produces the thought, using information provided by the brain (electrical activity caused by soul gaining access to information or looking to give the thought material expression), or the brain produces the thought (electrical activity) using its own information (materialism).